Latest at night passenger trains (not sleeper)? 03:34 Paddington to Reading?

[Monkeymagic]

As title really.

What are the latest running trains (latest leaving and arriving) passenger trains in the UK?

I once got maybe the weirdest feeling train I've ever experienced, home from Bristol TM to Cheltenham. Was maybe 7 years ago now, but remember it well.

It was the last train out out of BRI (current time table shows 22.54, but I'm sure it was a little later), and had to change at Severn Tunnel Junction, and wait there for about 45min!

This was around Xmas time, and as anyone who's been there knows, STJ is not exactly hospitable at the best of times- Miles from anywhere, unmanned, no real shelter, barely lit, no nothing, looks almost disused. At night in the freezing winter it's much much worse, esp knowing, if this train don't arrive, what can you do?!

Currently the timetables seem to show only a train to Gloucester that gets there at 00:39, but I remember this ended at Cheltenham back then, and I'm sure it was closer, if not beyond 01:00 as the station staff seemed surprised anyone was on the train- They had to unlock the gate so I could leave the station!

Anyhow, this vivid memory/nightmare just came to me and made me have a quick search on National Rail Enquiries live departures to see if anything is happening.

Nothing at all for most stations, but Paddington shows a 03:34 departure stopping at most stops and ending at Reading! Is that correct?

Are there any other late night trains? Seems beyond midnight is pretty rare full stop.
Would love to know more about any trains running so late/early.

Thanks in advance

 

[yorkie]

What are the latest running trains (latest leaving and arriving) passenger trains in the UK?

Can you define what's the latest you consider 'late'? At what point does it become early morning?

Is 1P05 0420 YRK-MIA a 'late night' or 'early morning' train?

If you define the question as "what's the last valid journey that can be done on a Day ticket dated for the previous day?" it's possibly departing West Drayton at 0422, and arriving Hayes & Harlington 0426 on 2P03.

Nothing at all for most stations, but Paddington shows a 03:34 departure stopping at most stops and ending at Reading! Is that correct?

Yes, that will be correct.

Are there any other late night trains? Seems beyond midnight is pretty rare full stop.
Would love to know more about any trains running so late/early.

Yes, loads, though not as many as there used to be. You can find them on any of the open data train time sites (such as Open Train Times, Realtimetrains, Raildar) as well as the printed/PDF timetables available from TOCs and the National Rail Timetable.

But I'm unsure which trains would qualify as being really late rather than really early

 

[tsr]

Southern operate trains like this, which might permit very late usage of a ticket from the previous day: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W64714/2014/12/13

Thameslink of course generally operate all through the night between Bedford & Three Bridges.

 

[southern442]

Southern's Three Bridges trains also operate through the night.

 

[Iskra]

TPE operate 24/7 between Manchester Airport and York although they become infrequent late at night/the early hours.

 

[Abpj17]

^^ ditto; Thameslink operates through the night - there is no 'late' or 'last' train per se. At the moment it is hourly between 2am and 5am ish, but it is due to increase to every 30 minutes.

The most likely reasons for this is that the line has two airports (Luton and Gatwick and passes through central London) so there are just about enough people to run a service for. I assume the increase in frequency may be vaguely linked to the tube starting to run all night too.

The calling pattern changes slightly - City Thameslink is a commuter/tourist station (closes overnight and sundays) isn't called at, and the overnight trains are always all stations. Not sure it applies on early Sunday either, and is obviously at risk of disruption from weekend engineering. Given the commuting links, the barriers/side gates etc. are left unlocked for the stations in question (or the larger stations are staffed - definitely Blackfriars, St P, Gatwick, Luton Airport will all be staffed)

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/BFR/LTN/161214/0100/dep#outwardJump

 

[Monkeymagic]

Ah, interesting.

I'm from the SouthWest, so most of my rail experience is from south and west of about Birmingham, and seems around here not much happens after about midnight, due to no airport connections.

I guess, considering these airport ones, and early morning thinly disguised stock movements, I mean trains that start their journey at least no later than about 1am. Which around here still seems pretty unheard of.

I reckon that Severn Tunnel Junction at gone 11.30pm (well, any time really, it's in the middle of nowhere lol) has got to be about the least hospitable scheduled place to be waiting for a new train mind you lol.

The realtime trains link is very good, thanks!

 

[sarahj]

I've worked these night trains on the BML. the 04.00 departure from Victoria to Brighton is the last train that tickets from the day before can be used. On the night services, not all go to Three Bridges, some reverse at Gatwick.

Stopping pattern is:

Victoria, Clapham junction, Selhurst (staff stop, not advertised), East Croydon, Purley, Horley, Gatwick...some Three Bridges. The first one also stops at Redhill. The 04.00 has a service stop at Redhill. But you never mention it until crossing the point into the station, as sometimes you go via the Quarry, and sometimes you even take the middle tracks at Redhill.

There used to be good money working these trains, but the barriers at Gatwick put paid to that. (once took over a £1000 in one week. Last time from sun to fri took zero, £60, £75, £5.10, £10.20. £40). Some nights not even worth taking a machine, and you only go through down wise between Victoria and East Croydon if your feeling brave and like being sworn at.

During the weekend, they can be a pain, esp Victoria to Purley. Some times during the winter midweek its been me and some homeless types. You do see some sights, and the 04.00 is sometimes known as a vomit comet, and they always smell due to half eaten tubs of wasabi noodles. (yet to see anyone finish a tub):roll:

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's an 0315 ish Milton Keynes Central to London Euston, it's formed of the stock that arrives at MKC from the 0134 service from Euston to MKC. I used it once and it is surprisingly well-used - popular with Tube workers and the likes.

Neil

 

[tsr]

Stopping pattern is:

Victoria, Clapham junction, Selhurst (staff stop, not advertised), East Croydon, Purley, Horley, Gatwick...some Three Bridges. The first one also stops at Redhill. The 04.00 has a service stop at Redhill. But you never mention it until crossing the point into the station, as sometimes you go via the Quarry, and sometimes you even take the middle tracks at Redhill.

The staff/service stops at Redhill are actually fairly well known by various locals who need them, and they're on the Detailed mode of Realtime Trains as well, but you'd have to check that (it's usually reasonably accurate) to see if they will be made on the particular night you intend to travel. I've used them once or twice for operational reasons and you can find a surprising number of folks getting on and off. Oddly enough, many Southern staff seem less well aware of them, other than those who work the trains. These unadvertised Redhill trains will (as you know) even be dispatched if need be (depends on platform/length of train), as Redhill is staffed pretty much 24/7. Not the best kept secret in the world, certainly!

The Up/Down Mainlines through Redhill will only be used instead of the platform lines as a last resort, as it is fairly unusual for those to be the only lines open through the station, although this could change when the refurbishment actually gets going and there could be overnight platform-related works. On the other hand, various issues such as tunnel and cutting inspections prevent use of the line between Merstham and Coulsdon South on a far more regular basis, hence why there can be diversions via the Quarry and thus no publicly-timetabled service.

 

[JonathanH]

The staff/service stops at Redhill are actually fairly well known by various locals who need them, and they're on the Detailed mode of Realtime Trains as well, but you'd have to check that (it's usually reasonably accurate) to see if they will be made on the particular night you intend to travel. I've used them once or twice for operational reasons and you can find a surprising number of folks getting on and off. Oddly enough, many Southern staff seem less well aware of them, other than those who work the trains. These unadvertised Redhill trains will (as you know) even be dispatched if need be (depends on platform/length of train), as Redhill is staffed pretty much 24/7. Not the best kept secret in the world, certainly!

The Up/Down Mainlines through Redhill will only be used instead of the platform lines as a last resort, as it is fairly unusual for those to be the only lines open through the station, although this could change when the refurbishment actually gets going and there could be overnight platform-related works. On the other hand, various issues such as tunnel and cutting inspections prevent use of the line between Merstham and Coulsdon South on a far more regular basis, hence why there can be diversions via the Quarry and thus no publicly-timetabled service.

...and it's perfectly possible for the train to get to Stoats Nest Junction having been announced on board as stopping at Redhill and be sent down the Quarry Line because of 'emergency engineering works' even if it is shown on the plan as stopping at Redhill (as I found to my pain in the early hours of Saturday 6 December).

Strangely, the on-board advice was to stay on to Gatwick rather than 'tough luck, it's your fault for travelling to an unadvertised destination'. At Gatwick, the platform staff knew nothing about it and the latter was the advice.

The stop at Redhill on the 0100 from Victoria is fairly well known about by normal passengers.

I appreciate that it will never be possible to advertise overnight stops at Redhill but if the 0100 can have an unadvertised stop at Redhill, why can't all the overnight trains have one? Then, at least if there was emergency engineering work in one direction it might be possible to circulate round it.

 

[southern442]

...and it's perfectly possible for the train to get to Stoats Nest Junction having been announced on board as stopping at Redhill and be sent down the Quarry Line because of 'emergency engineering works' even if it is shown on the plan as stopping at Redhill (as I found to my pain in the early hours of Saturday 6 December).

Strangely, the on-board advice was to stay on to Gatwick rather than 'tough luck, it's your fault for travelling to an unadvertised destination'. At Gatwick, the platform staff knew nothing about it and the latter was the advice.

The stop at Redhill on the 0100 from Victoria is fairly well known about by normal passengers.

I appreciate that it will never be possible to advertise overnight stops at Redhill but if the 0100 can have an unadvertised stop at Redhill, why can't all the overnight trains have one? Then, at least if there was emergency engineering work in one direction it might be possible to circulate round it.

One of (if not) the first train from Brighton to London of the day also stops at Balham. Is this for Streatham Hill Depot?

 

[Abpj17]

Ah, interesting.

I'm from the SouthWest, so most of my rail experience is from south and west of about Birmingham, and seems around here not much happens after about midnight, due to no airport connections.

I guess, considering these airport ones, and early morning thinly disguised stock movements, I mean trains that start their journey at least no later than about 1am. Which around here still seems pretty unheard of.

I reckon that Severn Tunnel Junction at gone 11.30pm (well, any time really, it's in the middle of nowhere lol) has got to be about the least hospitable scheduled place to be waiting for a new train mind you lol.

The realtime trains link is very good, thanks!

Yeah; Thameslink has had 'night' services for as many years as I've come home late after going to the pub after work Certainly on the ones I've got on, they've not been complete ghost trains, you can get a dozen or so people getting on at Blackfriars for example.

Particularly with the new platforms over the Thames it never feels too deserted - usually at least one member of staff wandering about, the lights along the banks of the Thames and a steady flow of boats etc.

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, I've never been on an empty TL train whatever the time of night I've been on it. Plenty of drunks going home amongst those going to one of the airports.

And presumably shift workers too, who rely on trains running almost 24/7 (bar Sunday mornings).

 

[sarahj]

Amazingly, one week when I was doing nights, the one night they advertised the 04.00 stopping at Redhill, was the night we had spent going the quarry line. Taxis were on offer at Purley, however, the one person who never bothered to listen to me telling over and over again that we would not be calling at Redhill was a staff member. We had to sort out a taxi from Horley for him, though I think he was going to be late for his shift.

When its not advertised, as on train staff, I only mention we will be stopping when we flick over into the platform. I've done enough nights to know the score on very last moment changes.

 

[D6975]

The last train from Bristol to Cardiff is at 01:37, arriving in Cardiff at 02:30.
It's the last Pad-Cardiff of the day. Apart from the Man Airport services it's one of the few late nighters that are well away from London.

 

[higthomas]

The last train from Bristol to Cardiff is at 01:37, arriving in Cardiff at 02:30.
It's the last Pad-Cardiff of the day. Apart from the Man Airport services it's one of the few late nighters that are well away from London.

Except of course it is from London.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

1B01 - 0105 Waterloo - Southampton Cen, Calls VXH, CLJ, WOK, FNB, FLE, BSK, WIN, ESL, SOA, SDN & SOU (between 0256 - 0327).

Routing varies usually via Hounslow/Richmond & Chertsey, but sometimes goes via WIM & SUR and down the mainline, sometimes via SUR & EFF with a reversal at GLD & WOK, sometimes terminates at BSK or other out stations due to engineering work.

 

[Muzer]

And my massive pet peeve:

Why the f*** can't it call at Swaythling? :mad:

 

[RJ]

I've worked these night trains on the BML. the 04.00 departure from Victoria to Brighton is the last train that tickets from the day before can be used. On the night services, not all go to Three Bridges, some reverse at Gatwick.

Stopping pattern is:

Victoria, Clapham junction, Selhurst (staff stop, not advertised), East Croydon, Purley, Horley, Gatwick...some Three Bridges. The first one also stops at Redhill. The 04.00 has a service stop at Redhill. But you never mention it until crossing the point into the station, as sometimes you go via the Quarry, and sometimes you even take the middle tracks at Redhill.

There used to be good money working these trains, but the barriers at Gatwick put paid to that. (once took over a £1000 in one week. Last time from sun to fri took zero, £60, £75, £5.10, £10.20. £40). Some nights not even worth taking a machine, and you only go through down wise between Victoria and East Croydon if your feeling brave and like being sworn at.

During the weekend, they can be a pain, esp Victoria to Purley. Some times during the winter midweek its been me and some homeless types. You do see some sights, and the 04.00 is sometimes known as a vomit comet, and they always smell due to half eaten tubs of wasabi noodles. (yet to see anyone finish a tub):roll:

After a night out with a friend in Brighton, we had an enlightening experience on the 0350 from Brighton to Victoria one Sunday morning. The station was opened around 5 minutes before its departure time by the 4 members of staff present. Several youths climbed over/crawled under the barriers and one of the staff said something like "let them go, it'll clear them of the platforms." The departure was delayed until 0415. I thought the station staff had called the police and were waiting for them to arrive. I was wrong - it was for operational reasons. I knew at that point I wasn't going to nod off on that train!

The youths steamed up and down the train several times during the course of the journey, looking for people to throw things at and rob. They didn't bother us, but two of them plotted to steal a nearby sleeping passenger's Samsung tablet - and executed the plan without him waking up. The youths got off at East Croydon and were maniacally running up and down the platforms there. The victim finally woke up as we left the station.

The first member of staff seen on that train was a RPI who checked my ticket as we passed Wandsworth Road! Late trains sound like a bundle of joy - I salute those brave enough to patrol them in uniform!

 

[plastictaffy]

0335 off Milton Keynes Central...........

 

[tsr]

...and it's perfectly possible for the train to get to Stoats Nest Junction having been announced on board as stopping at Redhill and be sent down the Quarry Line because of 'emergency engineering works' even if it is shown on the plan as stopping at Redhill (as I found to my pain in the early hours of Saturday 6 December).

Strangely, the on-board advice was to stay on to Gatwick rather than 'tough luck, it's your fault for travelling to an unadvertised destination'. At Gatwick, the platform staff knew nothing about it and the latter was the advice.

The stop at Redhill on the 0100 from Victoria is fairly well known about by normal passengers.

I appreciate that it will never be possible to advertise overnight stops at Redhill but if the 0100 can have an unadvertised stop at Redhill, why can't all the overnight trains have one? Then, at least if there was emergency engineering work in one direction it might be possible to circulate round it.

Your point about stopping more trains is a good one, though bear with me as I have some thoughts. I would like to see a more rigid timetable for inspections and planned works, so that the calls at Redhill could actually be more frequent and advertised, but only on (say) 5 or 6 days per week. This would reduce the anomaly of almost-regular but unadvertised stops at what is usually a perfectly serviceable station. It could boost the economy of Redhill by encouraging different types of workers (eg. shift workers at Gatwick Airport) to live near the station and use the railway, provide options for early connections from London, and all sorts of things. However, I'm aware that said works can often need to vary in length and can also have their own frustrations in worker/plant availability and last-minute changes. I don't think calls would work in one direction only because of the practicalities and safety of workers operating on one of the lines with very limited clearances at any point between Coulsdon South and Merstham, and further issues with any works on the junctions at Redhill requiring a larger-scale possession.

However, it should be possible, with a bit of willpower, to run a shuttle from either Redhill to Purley or Redhill to Horley/Gatwick Airport to connect with the through service to/from London Victoria, at least during some possessions. I have thought about the rostering arrangements and stock arrangements and, given a 455 unit stables during most nights at Redhill, provided mileage is available, at least one issue is covered. Finding crew would surely be a maximum of just one additional turn or even possibly half of one (bearing in mind the gap in public traffic hours is currently only between around 0055 and 0530). As for dispatch, it would give the station staff present something more productive to do than what they get now, although of course drunk passengers might not be especially amusing. So hopefully the resources could normally be in place anyway, with the crew rostered perhaps for a cover turn when there is any risk of unplanned works but no scheduled shuttle service.

 

[Busaholic]

Oh what a different world.

Taunton station in the 1960s was an absolute hive of activity all through the night, multiple overnight services between Paddington and the west, both ways (most went via Bristol), separate trains which were, theoretically at least, for sleeper passengers, seated passengers, mail, parcels and newspapers, but even these last seemed to carry a BSK or two with always a few passengers (commonly sailors headed to Plymouth) in them. On summer Friday nights/Saturday mornings at 3 am when many of the passenger services from both London and the North were duplicated it could be the busiest time, trains stopped in all four through platforms with Warships and Westerns chanting away at the head and Taunton shed drivers looking decidedly chipper as they took over.

Once you had met the relative who had returned through Heathrow or wherever that evening from overseas, it was however a walk home through absolutely deserted streets apart from maybe an isolated policeman coming across the road for a chat.

You remind me of a youth that I was drastically trying to misspend after a rather repressed childhood. Minehead, late 1960s, no-one about after about 11.15 p.m., about from a jumped-up Special Constable in a panda car parked in The Square. My mate and I would saunter along the main street, fully aware this PC had absolutely nothing to do other than watch us, then suddenly tear round into a side road. Cue engine on, car screeching round corner by which time we were sauntering innocently again. We used to drive this guy wild; he wasn't that much older than us, an accountant or somesuch by day but he used to hate young people and we hated him back. I believe his policing days were over when about 500 items of lingerie from washing lines were found in his bedroom: thinking back, I guess he thought he had the perfect cover.

 

[D6975]

Except of course it is from London.

Read my post: 'last Padd-Cardiff of the day'

Forgot about the Fishguard as well, there's an overnight Swansea-Fishguard-Swansea connecting in/out of the ferry. Gets to Fishguard about 01:30 and gets back to Swansea about 04:00 to connect into the first Padd.

Another one that I used to catch en route to/from Ireland was the Birmingham-Holyhead-Birmingham overnight, but this stopped a few years ago.

Most overnights (non-sleeper) seem to be Ferry/Airport related.

 

[Deerfold]

Nothing at all for most stations, but Paddington shows a 03:34 departure stopping at most stops and ending at Reading! Is that correct?

Are there any other late night trains? Seems beyond midnight is pretty rare full stop.
Would love to know more about any trains running so late/early.

Thanks in advance

That's a remnant of the hourly overnight service which was running in both directions when I moved onto the line in May 2001 (xx34 from Paddington).

Of course it didn't run Saturday nights - who'd want to travel late then?

In the other direction is the last service from Reading at 0224, 0354 or 0440? Or is one of those the first?

 

[JonathanH]

Your point about stopping more trains is a good one, though bear with me as I have some thoughts. I would like to see a more rigid timetable for inspections and planned works, so that the calls at Redhill could actually be more frequent and advertised, but only on (say) 5 or 6 days per week. This would reduce the anomaly of almost-regular but unadvertised stops at what is usually a perfectly serviceable station. It could boost the economy of Redhill by encouraging different types of workers (eg. shift workers at Gatwick Airport) to live near the station and use the railway, provide options for early connections from London, and all sorts of things. However, I'm aware that said works can often need to vary in length and can also have their own frustrations in worker/plant availability and last-minute changes. I don't think calls would work in one direction only because of the practicalities and safety of workers operating on one of the lines with very limited clearances at any point between Coulsdon South and Merstham, and further issues with any works on the junctions at Redhill requiring a larger-scale possession.

However, it should be possible, with a bit of willpower, to run a shuttle from either Redhill to Purley or Redhill to Horley/Gatwick Airport to connect with the through service to/from London Victoria, at least during some possessions. I have thought about the rostering arrangements and stock arrangements and, given a 455 unit stables during most nights at Redhill, provided mileage is available, at least one issue is covered. Finding crew would surely be a maximum of just one additional turn or even possibly half of one (bearing in mind the gap in public traffic hours is currently only between around 0055 and 0530). As for dispatch, it would give the station staff present something more productive to do than what they get now, although of course drunk passengers might not be especially amusing. So hopefully the resources could normally be in place anyway, with the crew rostered perhaps for a cover turn when there is any risk of unplanned works but no scheduled shuttle service.

From January, it will just be the 455 at Redhill again plus two turbos as the 377 on the evening Reigate shuttles will now join the last train to Tonbridge to allow strengthenin of the 0643 from Redhill to London Bridge.

Operators seem reluctant to put trains in that run differently because of engineering work on an unadvertised basis but there are all sorts of late night services they are happy to reschedule for engineering work.

This week for example the 2234 and 2334 from Reading to Gatwick are train to Wokingham, bus to Guildford, train to Redhill, bus to Gatwick. The trains leave Guildford when the bus arrives so run about an hour later than usual. It seems a bit unreasonable not to run any train in the usual path of the 2318 departure from Guildford yet this simply doesn't run.

 

[Taunton]

I'm from the SouthWest ........ and seems around here not much happens after about midnight

Oh what a different world.

Taunton station in the 1960s was an absolute hive of activity all through the night, multiple overnight services between Paddington and the west, both ways (most went via Bristol), separate trains which were, theoretically at least, for sleeper passengers, seated passengers, mail, parcels and newspapers, but even these last seemed to carry a BSK or two with always a few passengers (commonly sailors headed to Plymouth) in them. On summer Friday nights/Saturday mornings at 3 am when many of the passenger services from both London and the North were duplicated it could be the busiest time, trains stopped in all four through platforms with Warships and Westerns chanting away at the head and Taunton shed drivers looking decidedly chipper as they took over.

Once you had met the relative who had returned through Heathrow or wherever that evening from overseas, it was however a walk home through absolutely deserted streets apart from maybe an isolated policeman coming across the road for a chat.

Mods' note: the above post has been copied to a new thread, please use Night trains in bygone eras to discuss