Leeds - Chesterfield

[brillo]

Could anyone tell me please if a Leeds - Chesterfield Day Return is valid via Doncaster.
Many thanks.

 

[gazthomas]

Yes, the routing guide shows this is valid and I could also get itineraries via Doncaster

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Could anyone tell me please if a Leeds - Chesterfield Day Return is valid via Doncaster.
Many thanks.

It would appear so, on both of the permitted route maps which show the validity - CE and XL (this is ignoring any potential shortest routes but I don't think Doncaster would feature on them).

For the former map you can do the following option if you want to go via Doncaster. Go to Wakefield (either direct or via Pontefract if you want to go the long way round) and then go to Doncaster, then go to Sheffield via Swinton and Meadowhall. For the latter, you have the same option, but you can't go via Pontefract on the way to Wakefield, you must go direct.

So yes, it is valid via Doncaster.

 

[brillo]

Thanks very much. I'm going Leeds - Chesterfield direct outward and then the 19.28 Chesterfield - Doncaster Cross Country and an LNER train Doncaster - Leeds.
By the way can you help with this please. A Leeds - Sheffield day return is not valid via Doncaster. That's fine. There is a Cross Country tain on Saturday afternoon that goes from Sheffield - Leeds via Doncaster. I jumped on this one not realising it went via Doncaster and was pulled up on this but not excessed. If the train is going from Sheffield - Leeds (but via Doncaster) than surely I'm starting from Sheffield and ending up at Leeds without changing. It's not my fault it goes via Doncaster and if it is not valid then how are the public going to know this?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

A Leeds - Sheffield day return is not valid via Doncaster.

Unless I there is a relevant easement I don't know about, the Day Returns routed 'not via Doncaster' are indeed not valid via Doncaster. There are also more expensive fares routed 'Any Permitted' and these are valid via Doncaster as well as not via Doncaster.

I jumped on this one not realising it went via Doncaster and was pulled up on this but not excessed.

If you held a 'not via Doncaster' ticket and were travelling via Doncaster then, again, unless either the train was diverted from its planned route, or you had been given permission to use the ticket on that invalid route, or there is an easement which permits it, then it would be correct for you to be excessed to the cheapest relevant ticket. This is likely to be the Anytime Day Return routed 'Any Permitted'.

If the train is going from Sheffield - Leeds (but via Doncaster) than surely I'm starting from Sheffield and ending up at Leeds without changing. It's not my fault it goes via Doncaster and if it is not valid then how are the public going to know this?

The fact that it's a through train doesn't override the ticket's route restriction! Of course you can always excess your ticket, in terms of route or time restrictions, onboard without penalty. However, until such time as you do so, a 'not via Doncaster' ticket is unsurprisingly not valid via Doncaster, regardless of if you make the journey with one through train.

It might not be your 'fault' that the train goes via Doncaster (in the sense that you don't control the signals, points or train planning), but nevertheless you can expect to be excessed if traveling via an invalid route for your ticket. Does the display board on the platform at Sheffield not state that the train calls at Doncaster?

I would agree that there definitely could be cases where you take a train which, unbeknownst to you, goes via a route which your ticket isn't valid for - e.g. if your train went via Doncaster but didn't call there.

 

[brillo]

Many thanks again.
It may have been something I read incorrectly or it was valid years ago was that If I held a ticket A - B then as long as the train went direct from A - B (but via C) then the ticket was valid.
I stand corrected.
Thanks again.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Many thanks again.
It may have been something I read incorrectly or it was valid years ago was that If I held a ticket A - B then as long as the train went direct from A - B (but via C) then the ticket was valid.
I stand corrected.
Thanks again.

Well, subject to any Train Company and/or route restrictions printed on the ticket, you may use any direct train from your ticket's origin to your ticket's destination, regardless of how circuitous the route it takes is. This is indeed a rule (it is in Condition 13.1.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel) - but I suspect you may have forgotten the proviso about how this is subject to any restrictions printed on the ticket. I mean, it makes sense - otherwise what's the point of even having the route restriction if you can simply "get around it" by using a through train!

 

[yorkie]

By the way can you help with this please. A Leeds - Sheffield day return is not valid via Doncaster. That's fine. There is a Cross Country tain on Saturday afternoon that goes from Sheffield - Leeds via Doncaster. I jumped on this one not realising it went via Doncaster and was pulled up on this but not excessed. If the train is going from Sheffield - Leeds (but via Doncaster) than surely I'm starting from Sheffield and ending up at Leeds without changing. It's not my fault it goes via Doncaster and if it is not valid then how are the public going to know this?

Sheffield to Leeds does have permitted routes via Doncaster.

Furthermore, travel on a through train is permitted, regardless of permitted routes.

However it appears that you actually held a ticket that was not valid by any permitted route, and was in fact, specifically routed not via Doncaster. Such a ticket is not valid via Doncaster.

However no through trains I have only ever heard of people being "let off"; the rail industry might not want to risk charging people the excess (for a return it would be half the difference between the price paid and the lowest valid fare via Doncaster), possibly in case someone was to challenge the legitimacy of such a charge in the courts under consumer law.