Leeds PSB mechanical boxes

[HS 4000]

After reading that york IECC aquired the signaling for the leeds PSB area in the mid 1990s, I cant seem to find out where or which of the mechanical boxes it replaced , Im contemplating on buying a distant signal lever which is apparently from leeds, which was removed in the 1990s but cant narrow down which box its from , Infomation needed, attached is the said lever , which is mounted on a steel plate
Cheers.

 

[Gloster]

You presumably mean one of the other boxes in the Leeds area that were taken over by York, as Leeds PSB would not have had any levers. Probably a fairly small box, as it appears to have only a Home (3) and Distant (this lever, which I presume is 1) on the Up Main. (That district is well out of my area of knowledge.)

 

[HS 4000]

Thanks I wasent aware that leeds PSB dident have levers, as rolling stock is more my feild ,the plate does say "1 UP MAIN DISTANT"

 

[John Webb]

Leeds PSB opened in 1967, replacing boxes at:

Engine Shed Jcn (Leeds), Leeds, Marsh Lane (A), Neville Hill West, Wortley West Jcn​

It was extended in 1971, replacing:

South Kirkby, Wakefield Westgate (A)​

And again in 1994, replacing:

Ilkley, Keighly, Kirkstill, Shipley, Skipton​

although these were electrical interlockings controlled from elsewhere - sorry, haven't worked out the detail!
It used the eNtrance-eXit (N-X) panel system whereby push-push buttons on a panel were used to set up routes electrically.
It closed in stages between 2000 and 2002.

It is near-impossible to say which mechanical signal box the lever would have come from. Position 1 at the end of a frame of levers was frequently occupied by a distant lever as these signals were furthest from the box and the lever layout was very roughly orientated in a geographical fashion.

 

[D6130]

It's not clear from the photo whether the lever has a long handle (semaphore) or a short handle (colour light). I was a driver at Skipton at the time of the 1994 resignalling and the only semaphore distants that I can recall on the Leeds-Skipton line at that time were the twin Down splitting distants at Apperley Junction.

 

[MichaelAMW]

You presumably mean one of the other boxes in the Leeds area that were taken over by York, as Leeds PSB would not have had any levers. Probably a fairly small box, as it appears to have only a Home (3) and Distant (this lever, which I presume is 1) on the Up Main. (That district is well out of my area of knowledge.)

I wouldn't be surprised if it came from what was essentially a gate box, even if it was also a block post, since, as you say, there is only one stop signal on the line in question.

 

[John Webb]

You presumably mean one of the other boxes in the Leeds area that were taken over by York, as Leeds PSB would not have had any levers. Probably a fairly small box, as it appears to have only a Home (3) and Distant (this lever, which I presume is 1) on the Up Main. (That district is well out of my area of knowledge.)

For the OP's benefit the small figure 3 under the lever description tells the signaller that another lever must be pulled before the distant (1) can be pulled. Thus we deduce this was a very simple layout with only one stop signal - if there had been more stop signals on the up line then all would need clearing before the distant could be cleared, and their numbers would have been listed with the 3.

 

[Gloster]

One possibility, and it is only a possibility as there could well be others that fit, is Bingley Junction at Shipley, which was closed on 25 June 1994. The diagram is on David Heys site (under Rail Cameraman Peter Thorpe) or the Lymm Observatory site.

 

[D6130]

Bingley Junction at Shipley, which was closed on 25 June 1994.

That box has been re-erected at Keighley on the Worth Valley Railway, but has never been commissioned and I'm not certain whether the lever frame is still inside. The thought did cross my mind that the lever may have been from Bingley box....but then I remembered that it had one stop signal in the Down direction and two in the Up, in its latter days.

 

[Ploughman]

Leeds PSB opened in 1967, replacing boxes at:

Engine Shed Jcn (Leeds), Leeds, Marsh Lane (A), Neville Hill West, Wortley West Jcn​

It was extended in 1971, replacing:

South Kirkby, Wakefield Westgate (A)​

And again in 1994, replacing:

Ilkley, Keighly, Kirkstill, Shipley, Skipton​

although these were electrical interlockings controlled from elsewhere - sorry, haven't worked out the detail!
It used the eNtrance-eXit (N-X) panel system whereby push-push buttons on a panel were used to set up routes electrically.
It closed in stages between 2000 and 2002.

It is near-impossible to say which mechanical signal box the lever would have come from. Position 1 at the end of a frame of levers was frequently occupied by a distant lever as these signals were furthest from the box and the lever layout was very roughly orientated in a geographical fashion.

On the LNW route between Leeds and Hellifield there were more boxes than those listed, that disappeared in the 1994 period.
Skipton had a North box plus a South box.
Cononley, KIldwick, Steeton and Silsden, Bingley, 3 boxes at Shipley - Bradford, Bingley and Guiseley and Guiseley box itself.
Steeton may have been demolished about 1990.
Hellifield now became the Fringe box to York on this panel.

 

[D6130]

Steeton may have been demolished about 1990.

Steeton & Silsden box closed on 29th October 1989, having been made redundant by the replacement of the adjacent level crossing by a new overbridge. The lever frame was subsequently moved to the North Norfolk Railway, after which the box became a taxi office. Unfortunately it was destroyed by fire on 17th June 1999. The section of line between Keighley and Cononley had been resignalled by BR's North Eastern Region in the mid-1960s using three aspect colour light signals worked by track circuit block, but retaining the original boxes. Cononley-Skipton remained absolute block until 1994 due to the presence of the ER/LMR regional boundary at Snaygill, half-way between the two, and the LMR's reluctance to invest in the route.

 

[Ken H]

On the LNW route between Leeds and Hellifield there were more boxes than those listed, that disappeared in the 1994 period.
Skipton had a North box plus a South box.
Cononley, KIldwick, Steeton and Silsden, Bingley, 3 boxes at Shipley - Bradford, Bingley and Guiseley and Guiseley box itself.
Steeton may have been demolished about 1990.
Hellifield now became the Fringe box to York on this panel.

There were Kirkstall, newlay, apperley jct, thackley as well.

 

[D6130]

There were Kirkstall, newlay, apperley jct, thackley as well.

True, but Newlay and Thackley had both closed some years before the 1994 resignalling.

 

[Ken H]

True, but Newlay and Thackley had both closed some years before the 1994 resignalling.

Replaced with intermediate block or just longer sections?

 

[Ploughman]

I believe Skipton North box was bought for preservation.
Anyone know where it went?
Guiseley went to Bolton Abbey
Shipley - Bingley to Keighley?

 

[Gloster]

The caption to a photo on Flickr (posting date unknown) of Skipton North says that both frame and structure went to the Avon Valley Railway and were in store. The intention was to use the parts for three smaller boxes

 

[D6130]

Replaced with intermediate block or just longer sections?

Longer sections. Thackley box was no longer needed when the four tracks to Shipley were reduced to two (sometime in the mid-1980s?)

 

[Trackman_DY]

This lever is not from a Midland frame.

It looks to be from a McKenzie & Holland frame.

It also has a long handle which would confirm that it worked a semaphore distant signal.

It could however have originated from a Midland signal box where the original Midland frame had been replaced by a McK&H frame which was practice on the NER/ER.

Two examples of this (but not on the Leeds District) would be Whitwell (Derbyshire) and Royston Junction and these frames were installed at the rear of the box.

But if not a Midland box, then the lever could have come from an Eastern signal box and either one that was built in BR days or had a replacement McK&H frame installed in the same era.

If this lever came from a box where the frame was installed at the rear, then the box would have been on the Up side of the line.

The plate on the lever certainly looks to be of Eastern Region origin.

 

[Gloster]

Which means it could come from one of the NER boxes to the north or east of Leeds. I don’t know whether Leeds PSB was extended out on the Harrogate or Micklefield lines in the 1990s, though I have some very vague memory of reading about something.

 

[Ken H]

Which means it could come from one of the NER boxes to the north or east of Leeds. I don’t know whether Leeds PSB was extended out on the Harrogate or Micklefield lines in the 1990s, though I have some very vague memory of reading about something.

When did Horsforth close? This thread on the secret Leeds site suggests 2012. https://www.secretleeds.com/viewtopic.php?t=3809

 

[Gloster]

When did Horsforth close? This thread on the secret Leeds site suggests 2012. https://www.secretleeds.com/viewtopic.php?t=3809

I can’t get at the one item on the web that might give a date, but it looks like 2012, possibly the end of October. A post on this forum suggests it was demolished the following year, probably in February.

 

[D6130]

When did Horsforth close?

Horsforth didn't have any semaphore running signals - only ground discs - after becoming a fringe to Leeds Power Box in 1967.

 

[HS 4000]

This lever is not from a Midland frame.

It looks to be from a McKenzie & Holland frame.

It also has a long handle which would confirm that it worked a semaphore distant signal.

It could however have originated from a Midland signal box where the original Midland frame had been replaced by a McK&H frame which was practice on the NER/ER.

Two examples of this (but not on the Leeds District) would be Whitwell (Derbyshire) and Royston Junction and these frames were installed at the rear of the box.

But if not a Midland box, then the lever could have come from an Eastern signal box and either one that was built in BR days or had a replacement McK&H frame installed in the same era.

If this lever came from a box where the frame was installed at the rear, then the box would have been on the Up side of the line.

Thanks for your help everyone , I bought the lever , rather nice curio , it is indeed a McKenzie and holland lever.