Liverpool Central to Chester or Southport in 30 minutes?

[Ianno87]

So how else is that 9 minutes made up between Southport and Hunts Cross? Aside from faster acceleration and deceleration.

And better dwell times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So how else is that 9 minutes made up between Southport and Hunts Cross? Aside from faster acceleration and deceleration.

Exactly that. 507/508s are sluggish (though admittedly not quite as sluggish as 319s), these things should take off like a rocket.

The only place 70mph top speed really makes any difference is south of Hooton.

And better dwell times.

Interesting you mention that, because there is only one way to achieve that, and it's a controversial operational method, not anything to do with the unit (please let's not have a debate on it here ). If they are being guard-operated from a passenger door they will be slightly slower dwells than 507/508s (maybe only by 1-2 seconds, but slower) because there is an extra time for the ramp to deploy and retract. Merseyrail trains typically are not busy enough for the door layout to make any difference, and indeed it's not substantially different from the 507/508 anyway.

 

[Ianno87]

Interesting you mention that, because there is only one way to achieve that, and it's a controversial operational method, not anything to do with the unit (please let's not have a debate on it here ). If they are being guard-operated from a passenger door they will be slightly slower dwells than 507/508s (maybe only by 1-2 seconds, but slower) because there is an extra time for the ramp to deploy and retract. Merseyrail trains typically are not busy enough for the door layout to make any difference, and indeed it's not substantially different from the 507/508 anyway.

Better door circulation areas and internal configuration help too, without having to address the dispatch procedure.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've been looking at the LMS 1947 timetable on timetableworld.com.
Table 113 shows Chester-Liverpool Central LL via Rock Ferry (change for Mersey Railway) in typically 38 minutes, roughly hourly with one main line stop at Hooton.
The fastest overall time was 35 minutes using the 0708 Llandudno-Birkenhead Woodside (non-stop Chester-Rock Ferry).
The usual running time Chester-Rock Ferry with one stop was 18 minutes.
So a good deal slower than today's 45 minutes through service on Merseyrail.
You could of course go through to Birkenhead Woodside if you preferred the ferry to Liverpool, as many did then.

Oddly, the return Liverpool-Llandudno service ran from Lime St via Runcorn (Table 117) at 1615, reaching Chester non-stop at 1701 in 46 minutes, slightly faster than today's 48m TfW stoppers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Better door circulation areas and internal configuration help too, without having to address the dispatch procedure.

Other than peak services within about a half hour window and occasional special events like the Races when it tends to operate a special timetable (the peak in Liverpool is very, very narrow in terms of periods of high demand - maybe 2-3 services on each line from Liverpool departing between about 1715 and 1745, and similarly arriving in Liverpool between about 0815 and 0845) this isn't going to make any practical difference. Merseyrail isn't Thameslink in terms of demand or anywhere near it - it mostly offers far in excess of the required capacity.

The main thing to be "gained" by the more Thameslink-like interior is that they'll be able to get away with operating 4-car trains where presently they'd need 6, i.e. it's an opportunity to cheap out by reducing the size of the fleet.

 

[Llandudno]

That's optimistic....

Are there many sections on Merseyrail where the stations are sufficiently far enough apart or the track is suitable to enable 70mph running?

Hooton to Capenhurst and Hightown to Formby maybe?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are there many sections on Merseyrail where the stations are sufficiently far enough apart or the track is suitable to enable 70mph running?

Hooton to Capenhurst and Hightown to Formby maybe?

Track can be made suitable. I suspect Hooton-Bache, Hightown-Formby and Walton-Kirkdale might be the only bits I can think of where there would be a gain. If there is extension to Preston, substantial gains could be made past Ormskirk if the track was fettled (it's dead straight with only two level crossings, so getting to 70mph or even higher would just need the quality of it improving).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Bache-Hooton is already 70mph (it went up from 60mph several years ago).