Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich for Class 360 Desiros

[James Kevill]

I just thinking about the idea that after the electrification for the Midland Main Line is completed over the years, Liverpool to Nottingham via Manchester and Sheffield and Nottingham to Norwich via Grantham and Peterborough could be electrified as well so the Class 360 Desiros could operate on the Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich via Manchester Piccadilly, Sheffield and Nottingham in the future. And East Midlands Railway and any rolling stock owners could order the new 26 electric trains in 5 carriages to operate the London St Pancras to Corby, Harborough Market, Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield services.

 

[JonathanH]

And East Midlands Railway and any rolling stock owners could order the new 26 electric trains in 5 carriages to operate the London St Pancras to Corby, Harborough Market, Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield services.

Where does 26 come from and why do they need to have 5 carriages? They are procuring 33 5-car 810s and have 21 4-car 360s. The platforms at St Pancras will take 2 810s and 3 360s.

the Class 360 Desiros could operate on the Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich via Manchester Piccadilly, Sheffield and Nottingham in the future.

I'm not sure the timeframes will fit that idea.

 

[James Kevill]

Where does 26 come from and why do they need to have 5 carriages? They are procuring 33 5-car 810s and have 21 4-car 360s. The platforms at St Pancras will take 2 810s and 3 360s.

It's just a thought that's all. Well 20 electric units would be enough to operate from London to Corby line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I just thinking about the idea that after the electrification for the Midland Main Line is completed over the years, Liverpool to Nottingham via Manchester and Sheffield and Nottingham to Norwich via Grantham and Peterborough could be electrified as well so the Class 360 Desiros could operate on the Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich via Manchester Piccadilly, Sheffield and Nottingham in the future. And East Midlands Railway and any rolling stock owners could order the new 26 electric trains in 5 carriages to operate the London St Pancras to Corby, Harborough Market, Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield services.

To me the most sensible thing would be to use 5-car 80x and for it to be operated by TPE, interworking as necessary with the Cleethorpes.

 

[Fokx]

If such an event were to happen, why would you not leave the 360’s on their current route and eventually purchase new stock for the Liverpool route?

 

[Bertie the bus]

So, if they electrified half of the country's routes they could cascade unsuitable stock that would be due for scrapping by the time it was completed to Liverpool - Norwich services.

 

[James Kevill]

So, if they electrified half of the country's routes they could cascade unsuitable stock that would be due for scrapping by the time it was completed to Liverpool - Norwich services.

It might. Some old trains like Sprinters could cascaded to other rail operators and some of them to scrap.

 

[JonathanH]

It might. Some old trains like Sprinters could cascaded to other rail operators and some of them to scrap.

When are you expecting Liverpool to Norwich to be electrified throughout? Seems unlikely to be achieved in the next fifteen years given other routes which will get priority.

 

[RailWonderer]

The most sensible thing would have been to hand over Nottingham Liverpool to TPE and let them run a 6 car 185 and the EMR Nottingham Norwich a 170 or 158 in multiple. Electrification won't happen anytime soon and besides a few new IETs and cascaded stock nothing else will be authorised.

 

[MattRat]

Isn't Liverpool through to Sheffield being electrified also due to NPR? Just how much track is left unelectrfied afterwards, because a battery 350/2 might work instead.

 

[gc4946]

It'll be a very long wait for it to be fully electrified.
However this route deserves much better than 156s/158s/170s, and not to be split at Nottingham into two different operators

 

[A0]

Isn't Liverpool through to Sheffield being electrified also due to NPR? Just how much track is left unelectrfied afterwards, because a battery 350/2 might work instead.

I didn't think that the Hope Valley was up for electrification, which would mean running further North than they currently do.

Also, there are no current plans to wire Norwich - Ely, Ely - Peterborough or Grantham - Nottingham.

 

[185]

The most sensible thing would have been to hand over Nottingham Liverpool to TPE

No thanks. I'm quite happy with the current 95% of services running, opposed to 95% of TPE trains seemingly not running.

EMR are becoming ram-packed between Sheffield-Manchester-Liverpool due to regularly missing TPE services, mostly not strike / dispute related.

It's nice to have an alternative fast operator to TPE on the route simply because if it were all left to TPE, there'd often be nothing.

 

[MattRat]

No thanks. I'm quite happy with the current 95% of services running, opposed to 95% of TPE trains seemingly not running.

EMR are becoming ram-packed between Sheffield-Manchester-Liverpool due to regularly missing TPE services, mostly not strike / dispute related.

It's nice to have an alternative fast operator to TPE on the route simply because if it were all left to TPE, there'd often be nothing.

I think we need a third operator in general. Maybe even an open access operator. You basically get a horrible experience whichever operator you go with.

 

[Killingworth]

I think we need a third operator in general. Maybe even an open access operator. You basically get a horrible experience whichever operator you go with.

There is a very popular 3rd operator between Sheffield and Manchester using modern Class 195 units in a variety of 2, 3, 5 and 6 car consists. What's more a single ticket may cost £6 against £24 in the same hour by EMR or TPE. Drawback is a stop, start journey taking an extra 20-25 minutes. Another plus point is that because they start and finish at Manchester or Sheffield they're more likely to run to time.

Regular users are now opting for Northern reliability and value for money, something I can't have imagined writing 2 or 3 years ago!

Unfortunately the unpredictability of the varied shortcomings of TPE and EMR mean the Northern trains can be crowded with fast service 'refugees' or delayed by their late running.

 

[gc4946]

There is a very popular 3rd operator between Sheffield and Manchester using modern Class 195 units in a variety of 2, 3, 5 and 6 car consists. What's more a single ticket may cost £6 against £24 in the same hour by EMR or TPE. Drawback is a stop, start journey taking an extra 20-25 minutes. Another plus point is that because they start and finish at Manchester or Sheffield they're more likely to run to time.

Regular users are now opting for Northern reliability and value for money, something I can't have imagined writing 2 or 3 years ago!

Unfortunately the unpredictability of the varied shortcomings of TPE and EMR mean the Northern trains can be crowded with fast service 'refugees' or delayed by their late running.

Even allowing changes at Sheffield, the only problem is Nottingham is the southern limit of train service on Northern.
I can't see them taking over the Nottingham-Norwich section

 

[Killingworth]

Isn't Liverpool through to Sheffield being electrified also due to NPR? Just how much track is left unelectrfied afterwards, because a battery 350/2 might work instead.

Yes, it is in the outline plans and Sheffield - Manchester may have had some early outline work done at least 2-3 years ago. I heard someone who'd apparently been involved observe how that had been a fruitless year or so of his professional life that he wouldn't get back!

It's primarily the tunnels, 3 long and wet ones, deep Totley and Cowburn plus Disley totalling almost 8 miles. No weekend(?) trains for possibly years, or total blockades for maybe 6 months to get it all done. Currently on back burners pending improved technologies and completion of easier project priorities.