LNER ’good service’ on app but delayed and cancelled trains?

[Narrowgauge725]

If you look at LNER’s app it is stating ‘good service’ yet there are trains delayed and cancelled. Reasons being ‘congestion’ and ‘short notice timetable change’

Surely loads of trains cancelled and delayed is not a good service

 

[westv]

???
I'm on the 17:18 ,to Hull and it's running fine
... so far

Have I spoken too soon? Halted at Huntingdom

 

[Jamiescott1]

Often same scenario with gwr.
The app says good service yet the train i want to get is cancelled

 

[Swimbar]

If you look at LNER’s app it is stating ‘good service’ yet there are trains delayed and cancelled. Reasons being ‘congestion’ and ‘short notice timetable change’

Surely loads of trains cancelled and delayed is not a good service

With over 70 LNER trains leaving London Kings Cross on a weekday if 10 get cancelled its still a 'good service'

 

[TUC]

With over 70 LNER trains leaving London Kings Cross on a weekday if 10 get cancelled its still a 'good service'

Not if most of the 10 are around the same part of the day.

 

[Watershed]

With over 70 LNER trains leaving London Kings Cross on a weekday if 10 get cancelled its still a 'good service'

I hardly think a 14% cancellation rate qualifies as a good service. One or two trains cancelled, maybe. But many more than that and it's at least worth mentioning. That's how most TOCs do things, anyway.

 

[greyman42]

With over 70 LNER trains leaving London Kings Cross on a weekday if 10 get cancelled its still a 'good service'

So at what point does it become bad service?

 

[TUC]

Surely anything more than 5% cancellations is not a good service

 

[flitwickbeds]

So if a TOC runs 100 trains a day and 5 are cancelled in the morning because of a signal failure, their website should show "delays and cancellations" for the rest of the day, even though from 10am until close of play everything else runs to time?

If there's only 4 trains cancelled that morning then it's a good service, but as soon as one single train is cancelled in the late afternoon they should show "delays and cancellations" despite everything else running to time?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't use "good service" if there are any cancellations coming up. I would say "a few cancellations".

 

[Deafdoggie]

It shows what the railways think of customer service, and how low they set the bar for performance, that 10% of their services not operating is considered good! Any other industry would be apologising, the railways pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

 

[43066]

It shows what the railways think of customer service, and how low they set the bar for performance, that 10% of their services not operating is considered good! Any other industry would be apologising, the railways pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Oh dear.

It’s simply telling you the service is generally normal with no major disruption/engineering closures etc. rather than making a value judgment. I’m sure most people using the railway understand that!

 

[Deafdoggie]

Oh dear.

It’s simply telling you the service is generally normal with no major disruption/engineering closures etc. rather than making a value judgment. I’m sure most people using the railway understand that!

I'm positive nobody using the railway knows that. A good service should be a good service. Cancelling 10% of the service is not good.

 

[43066]

I'm positive nobody using the railway knows that. A good service should be a good service. Cancelling 10% of the service is not good.

As I’ve already pointed out, it isn’t supposed to be a value judgement! It’s a very strange thing to get wound up about.

 

[Deafdoggie]

As I’ve already pointed out, it isn’t supposed to be a value judgement! It’s a very strange thing to get wound up about.

Your time may not matter to you, but to some of us it's important and valuable. Being told the service is good but three trains on the bounce cancelled is a waste of my time when I've been told the service is good.
It's a shocking revelation of the way the industry sees its customers when this is considered not just acceptable but actually good.
What is the point in saying the service is good if I can't actually believe it, as by the industry's own admission it isn't?

 

[skyhigh]

Being told the service is good but three trains on the bounce cancelled is a waste of my time when I've been told the service is good.

Were three trains in a row cancelled?

 

[43066]

Your time may not matter to you, but to some of us it's important and valuable.

My time is certainly too valuable to waste worrying about the exact wording TOCs use to describe their service levels.

Being told the service is good but three trains on the bounce cancelled is a waste of my time when I've been told the service is good.

Service levels might generally be “good” (ie normal) but with a few trains delayed or cancelled throughout the day. Surely you can understand that it’s still sensible to check a particular train you’re heavily reliant on? That’s what most people do!

It's a shocking revelation of the way the industry sees its customers when this is considered not just acceptable but actually good.
What is the point in saying the service is good if I can't actually believe it, as by the industry's own admission it isn't?

This is conspiratorial nonsense. It isn’t anything of the sort when you understand that “good service” just means “normal service”. For the third time, it isn’t supposed to be a value judgement…

 

[yorkie]

The term "good service" is subjective.

A few cancellations won't be seen universally as being good, and therefore they are opening themselves up to criticism if they say that. Different people will have different standards or expectations.

There will clearly be a wide range of opinions regarding what the meaning of 'good service' is, or should be; some people are going to get 'wound up about it' while others may conversely get 'wound up' at the idea of people being 'wound up'. Others may disagree on whether their comments qualify as being 'wound up' Such is life!

I think we need to accept there will be a range of opinions on this, as with any subjective matter.

 

[Deafdoggie]

This is conspiratorial nonsense. It isn’t anything of the sort when you understand that “good service” just means “normal service”. For the third time, it isn’t supposed to be a value judgement…

So why not say normal service instead of good service? Dave good service for when the service is good?

 

[43066]

The term "good service" is subjective.

A few cancellations won't be seen universally as being good, and therefore they are opening themselves up to criticism if they say that. Different people will have different standards or expectations.

There will clearly be a wide range of opinions regarding what the meaning of 'good service' is, or should be; some people are going to get 'wound up about it' while others may conversely get 'wound up' at the idea of people being 'wound up'. Others may disagree on whether their comments qualify as being 'wound up' Such is life!

I think we need to accept there will be a range of opinions on this, as with any subjective matter.

In this context it can just be a synonym for “running well”. It isn’t meant to be a statement on whether the trains are comfortable, frequent enough, take you to where you want to be etc. I agree that more than a very few cancellations or very minor delays should be described as “‘minor disruption” or similar.

There’s a “good service” on the Jubilee line today, which means it’s running well. It’s also crush loaded with people in daft costumes, many of whom are under the influence of illicit substances (Notting Hill Carnival!) so I wouldn’t say it’s subjectively a “good service”!

So why not say normal service instead of good service? Dave good service for when the service is good?

Perhaps because “good” is distinguishable from degraded scenarios/engineering closures which are also “normal”. Do you honestly think TfL/TOCS get many complaints from people who think they should say “normal service” rather than “good service”?

I suggest the overwhelming majority of users will know exactly what is meant and not give the matter a second thought.

 

[43055]

Probably one of the things EMR does better than other operators with the route by route indicator on the website which shows either:
'good service' - no issues
'good service with minor changes' - normally used for short forms/on train info and minor delays
one in between that I can't remember - smaller disruption such the odd cancelation/delay
'disrupted service' - larger disruption/Barton line not running.

 

[Mojo]

I mentioned the nonsense of these service status summaries on the forum over nine years ago (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/live-information-summaries.80267/).

Whilst for turn up and go metro style operations they can be very useful, they don’t seem to serve a practical purpose on lines where people turn up for a specific train, and they also appear to be the last things to be updated. Seems like nothing has changed in the past decade on that front…