Loco hauled Provincial trains in the early 90s

[Cowley]

Hello all.
I'm trying to fill in a few gaps in my notes from an All line rover I did in August 1994, specifically which services were loco hauled by 31s/37s on these routes:

Weymouth - Bristol/Cardiff,
Cardiff via the Welsh Marches to Manchester,
Manchester/Birmingham - Holyhead,
Any other routes including Liverpool, Blackpool and generally in the North West.

I took notes of where I went, what I went behind and dates etc, but unfortunately not a great deal else.
Most of the services I went on were 37/4s, but a couple of them were 31/4s and I was also wondering if they were swapped around or whether the 31s stuck to 31 turns and the 37s to their turns?
There were a lot of loco hauled trains at that time and it was a very enjoyable week.

I know it's a while ago now, but any information gratefully received and any nostalgic memories too

 

[Elecman]

Blackpool Manchesters were nearly always class 31 hauled

 

[Cowley]

Blackpool Manchesters were nearly always class 31 hauled

Thanks for that, I didn't realise.

 

[daodao]

Hello all.
I'm trying to fill in a few gaps in my notes from an All line rover I did in August 1994, specifically which services were loco hauled by 31s/37s on these routes:

Weymouth - Bristol/Cardiff,
Cardiff via the Welsh Marches to Manchester,
Manchester/Birmingham - Holyhead,
Any other routes including Liverpool, Blackpool and generally in the North West.

I took notes of where I went, what I went behind and dates etc, but unfortunately not a great deal else.
Most of the services I went on were 37/4s, but a couple of them were 31/4s and I was also wondering if they were swapped around or whether the 31s stuck to 31 turns and the 37s to their turns?
There were a lot of loco hauled trains at that time and it was a very enjoyable week.

I know it's a while ago now, but any information gratefully received and any nostalgic memories too

There were loco-hauled trips on the Cardiff-Crewe line in the mid 1980s, with a couple of journeys extended to Manchester from about 1984, initially electric-hauled (class 86) from Manchester to Crewe. I recall class 31s and 37s, and possibly class 33s, with a class 40 on 1 trip.

About 1988/9, 2-coach class 155 sprinters were introduced to replace (nearly) all the loco-hauled passenger trains on this line. The service was accelerated, the frequency increased to approximately hourly and most journeys extended from Crewe to Manchester. At the time, this was a considerable improvement.

The class 155 trains were subsequently replaced with class 158s and split into single coach class 153 units, which I believe still appear on that line for Crewe-Shrewsbury and Central Wales line services.

 

[Bevan Price]

There were loco-hauled trips on the Cardiff-Crewe line in the mid 1980s, with a couple of journeys extended to Manchester from about 1984, initially electric-hauled (class 86) from Manchester to Crewe. I recall class 31s and 37s, and possibly class 33s, with a class 40 on 1 trip.

.

For a while there were also a couple of Cardiff - Crewe - Liverpool diagrams, usually Class 37/4.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Sadly I no longer have my Loco Hauled Travel/Diagram Diary books from that time; a shame as they would surely provide just about all the information the OP is looking for. As far as the purely north-west turns were concerned they were essentially based on Man Vic to Blackpool North with some "triangular" moves via Liverpool Lime St. There were also odd trips to Barrow and the Southport "club" train was also hauled for a spell including at one point a late evening run. For a while 31s and 37s appeared to be used interchangeably but as time went on 31s seemed to predominate. Non-heat locos used to turn up from time to time and generated much interest among the local bashing fraternity.

 

[Failed Unit]

Early 90s brings back memories of loco hauled Sheffield- Lincoln - cleethorpes services. Mainly down to a shortage of sprinters rather than needing it. But if I recall other areas of the uk had the same issues.

Were 158 and 153 deliveries running late and poor performance on 150s causing the issue.

 

[Cowley]

Sadly I no longer have my Loco Hauled Travel/Diagram Diary books from that time; a shame as they would surely provide just about all the information the OP is looking for. As far as the purely north-west turns were concerned they were essentially based on Man Vic to Blackpool North with some "triangular" moves via Liverpool Lime St. There were also odd trips to Barrow and the Southport "club" train was also hauled for a spell including at one point a late evening run. For a while 31s and 37s appeared to be used interchangeably but as time went on 31s seemed to predominate. Non-heat locos used to turn up from time to time and generated much interest among the local bashing fraternity.

Yes I think I had the Platform 5 loco hauled travel book at the time which no doubt helped me plan different moves out. As I remember it the trains were quite smart with matching locos and stock which was a mixture of mk1s and mk2s. At around 1700 there were a few departures from Manchester Victoria with trains going to Southport and Blackpool full of rush hour commuters.
These were I suppose what were called the 'Club Trains'.

 

[Cowley]

Early 90s brings back memories of loco hauled Sheffield- Lincoln - cleethorpes services. Mainly down to a shortage of sprinters rather than needing it. But if I recall other areas of the uk had the same issues.

Were 158 and 153 deliveries running late and poor performance on 150s causing the issue.

I think although I may be wrong, that by 1994 all the Sprinter classes were up and running and fairly reliable. I seem to remember that loco hauled services were reinstated on a lot of routes to boost capacity, I suppose as well that a lot of first generation DMUs were on their way out at the time too.
In the late 80s there were door problems and other teething troubles with the 155s and for a while I remember 47s and coaches being used between Portsmouth and Cardiff while the 155s were modified.

 

[Altfish]

For a short period in 2003 Class 31s top and tailed were used on some of the Manchester to Chester via Altrincham services. They were Fragonset units.

 

[a good off]

For a while there were also a couple of Cardiff - Crewe - Liverpool diagrams, usually Class 37/4.

At least as late as 1996, there was a FO Cardiff - Manchester that was a 37/4 and early Mk 2s.

 

[Ash Bridge]

At least as late as 1996, there was a FO Cardiff - Manchester that was a 37/4 and early Mk 2s.

Thanks for that, I used to see it regularly at Stockport on a Friday evening but just couldn't recall which years it was in operation.

 

[Bevan Price]

Although it currently includes data only up to 1989, the Rail-Gen archive (formerly Timewarp) has been revived, and gives a good idea of loco hauled passenger workings at that time.


http://railgenarchive.co.uk/sc/diarymenu.php


If, for example, you look at the October 1989 entry, that includes many of the Manchester & Liverpool area loco hauled workings;

http://railgenarchive.co.uk/sc/diary.php?yr=1989&mn=10&fl=AL

For a while, class 37/4 became common on Liverpool area workings as they were displaced from Scotland, but by 1994, 31s were the mainstay. The Liverpool / Preston loco hauled workings ceased on 27 May 1995, the final workings being 31439 + 31455 on the 17:12 Liverpool - Preston and 19:36 return (on which they just failed to reach 100 mph)

 

[86247]

the 17.12 Liverpool to Preston used to kick out some pretty decent no heat loco's especially no heat 37s

 

[Cowley]

Although it currently includes data only up to 1989, the Rail-Gen archive (formerly Timewarp) has been revived, and gives a good idea of loco hauled passenger workings at that time.


http://railgenarchive.co.uk/sc/diarymenu.php


If, for example, you look at the October 1989 entry, that includes many of the Manchester & Liverpool area loco hauled workings;

http://railgenarchive.co.uk/sc/diary.php?yr=1989&mn=10&fl=AL

For a while, class 37/4 became common on Liverpool area workings as they were displaced from Scotland, but by 1994, 31s were the mainstay. The Liverpool / Preston loco hauled workings ceased on 27 May 1995, the final workings being 31439 + 31455 on the 17:12 Liverpool - Preston and 19:36 return (on which they just failed to reach 100 mph)

Just spent far too much of my evening looking through all of that, thanks Bevan. There's quite a few trains that I remember going on in amongst it all, especially NB 47s in 1988

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

At least as late as 1996, there was a FO Cardiff - Manchester that was a 37/4 and early Mk 2s.

This train had the minor novelty of terminating at Oxford Road rather than Piccadilly. It then went immediately ecs to Crewe (I think) via Chat Moss.

the 17.12 Liverpool to Preston used to kick out some pretty decent no heat loco's especially no heat 37s

Inward ecs often worked by a Roarer.

 

[Cowley]

the 17.12 Liverpool to Preston used to kick out some pretty decent no heat loco's especially no heat 37s

Just as an aside and welcome by the way 86247, has anyone else seen 'The Bashers (The other side)' on YouTube and their 37 chasing antics? Well worth a watch and quite funny in places.

 

[Crewe Exile]

Interesting thread, bringing back a few memories - although I pretty much packed up mid 90s. There were quite a few loco hauled turns in the North West, as capacity issues and teething problems with sprinters dictated their use. Predominantly class 31 from both Man Vic and Liverpool Lime Street, class 37s also not uncommon. All sorts of destinations as well, Blackpool, Barrow, Southport, remember going round the Oldham loop behind a class 31 on more than 1 occasion. Also not uncommon for no heat 31s and 37s to operate, bringing many bashers out on an evening!.
Looking back the number of loco hauls was quite plentiful back then, although it didn't feel like it at the time!

 

[Bevan Price]

On one occasion in 1992 (16 June), Manchester found itself with only one loco to work the evening service to Southport -- 60096.

 

[Cowley]

Interesting thread, bringing back a few memories - although I pretty much packed up mid 90s. There were quite a few loco hauled turns in the North West, as capacity issues and teething problems with sprinters dictated their use. Predominantly class 31 from both Man Vic and Liverpool Lime Street, class 37s also not uncommon. All sorts of destinations as well, Blackpool, Barrow, Southport, remember going round the Oldham loop behind a class 31 on more than 1 occasion. Also not uncommon for no heat 31s and 37s to operate, bringing many bashers out on an evening!.
Looking back the number of loco hauls was quite plentiful back then, although it didn't feel like it at the time!

It was a bit of an Indian Summer in a way. Scotland had quite a lot of 37 turns in the summer of 94 too, including double headers on the sleepers. Plus the odd turn on the Marches and according to my not brilliant notes I had 37422 from Weymouth to Westbury on a turn to Bristol.
It all forced me into coming out of semi mainline retirement and doing one last All line before pretty much giving the mainline stuff up. That said though the late 90s ended up being pretty good too by the looks of things as the old 47s on Virgin Cross Country started to fall to bits, including amazingly a pair of 31s (465 and 466) making it to Bournemouth!

 

[86247]

Liverpool was good for loco's hauled trains my favourite was always the 17.12 a few stick in my mind like large logo 37 128 .rail freight coal 37 278 plenty of nb 31s and a blue 47 193 as an aside to this does anyone remember 37 012 doing a man picc- new street

 

[DarloRich]

I remember doing a Barrow - Manchester - Barrow trip around this time which was class 31 hauled i think.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Re the Marches; I believe class 37 haulage continued in some form or another until as late as 2004/5? Only when the 175 fleet transferred en-masse to the W&B franchise did it finally pack in.

 

[AJM580]

This thread reminded me of a holiday spent on a North West/Coast and Peaks Rover in 1993. These are the following RR trains noted. Asterisks indicate haulage.

Monday 20 Sept 1993

37429 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead/1430 Holyhead - Crewe
31465 - 1648 Preston - Barrow

Tuesday 21 Sept 1993

31160/31285 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead*
37425 - 1330 Holyhead - Manchester Vic*
31439 - 1648 Manchester Vic - Barrow*
37414 - 1714 Manchester Vic - Blackpool*
31465 - 1712 Liverpool - Blackpool*

Wednesday 22 Sept 1993

37418 - 1430 Holyhead - Crewe
31465 - 1915 Blackpool - Manchester Vic

Thursday 23 Sept 1993

37414 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead
37425 - 1330 Holyhead - Manchester Vic*
37422 - 1714 Manchester Vic - Blackpool*
31421 - 1712 Liverpool - Blackpool

Friday 24 Sept 1993

37421 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead*

Saturday 25 Sept 1993

37421 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead
37418 - 1206 Holyhead - Birmingham Int*

 

[Cowley]

This thread reminded me of a holiday spent on a North West/Coast and Peaks Rover in 1993. These are the following RR trains noted. Asterisks indicate haulage.

Monday 20 Sept 1993

37429 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead/1430 Holyhead - Crewe
31465 - 1648 Preston - Barrow

Tuesday 21 Sept 1993

31160/31285 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead*
37425 - 1330 Holyhead - Manchester Vic*
31439 - 1648 Manchester Vic - Barrow*
37414 - 1714 Manchester Vic - Blackpool*
31465 - 1712 Liverpool - Blackpool*

Wednesday 22 Sept 1993

37418 - 1430 Holyhead - Crewe
31465 - 1915 Blackpool - Manchester Vic

Thursday 23 Sept 1993

37414 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead
37425 - 1330 Holyhead - Manchester Vic*
37422 - 1714 Manchester Vic - Blackpool*
31421 - 1712 Liverpool - Blackpool

Friday 24 Sept 1993

37421 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead*

Saturday 25 Sept 1993

37421 - 1133 Crewe - Holyhead
37418 - 1206 Holyhead - Birmingham Int*

This is really useful AJM580. I'll see if I can work out some of what I've got noted down from it. I imagine that much of these duties were the same the year after maybe?
31160 and 31285. Nice. A case of right place right time there I believe

 

[amarshe]

I took an evening train from Crewe to Llandudno Junction in late 1998; it was class 37 hauled with mark 1 coaches.

Apparently they ran until Summer 2000: http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwcoach.htm