London-Bristol via slower routes, Fri out, Mon back: Long Weekender valid?

[gpvos]

Hi, non-UK traveller here. I know how UK tickets work in general, but I have some specific questions.

Is a GWR Long Weekender ticket from London to Bristol valid on the routes via Reading-Westbury and Basingstoke-Salisbury? The GWR sites says "any permitted" which should mean it is valid there, but other sources seem to indicate it is only sold by GWR, so maybe it is only valid on GWR trains?

In general, with the new layout of ojp.nationalrail.co.uk TOC-only restrictions seem to be displayed less clearly. Can I assume on all UK ticket websites that a ticket is valid on trains of all companies if such a restriction is not shown?

Specifically, I want to travel London-Bristol on Fri 7 June and back on Mon 10 June and "tick off" the London-Staines-Reading-Newbury-Westbury and London-Woking-Basingstoke-Andover-Salisbury routes (not sure yet in which order; I might decide on the day itself), since I've done the main line via Didcot already; both these routes are included in "any permitted" tickets from London to Bristol, aren't they? I need to connect to Eurostar at St Pancras arriving Fri 13:57 and leaving Mon 15:04, with preferably some flexibility if connections fail, so no Advance tickets if I can help it, and Super-Off-Peak seems a bit restrictive; Off-Peak might be okay. Long Weekender seems to be the way to go, but I'm open to other suggestions up to about £ 100 for the return. No railcards.

(Since tickets for that weekend are not on sale yet I've been looking up things for similar days in late April.)

 

[jfollows]

"Any permitted", yes, not restricted to GWR, https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=BRI&expert=on&flow=1&multi=0&fare=16&tkt=WKE or https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=BRI&expert=on&flow=1&multi=0&fare=17&tkt=WKD depending on days of travel, restriction codes 6U and 6T respectively.
For example:

Valid routes on maps:

• LA
• WC
• WR
• WX + LA
• WX + WR

at https://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps

But all sorts of other conditions such as mandatory reservation in one direction and no outward break of journey imply that it's intended to be a GWR-only thing, and a lack of detail on the restriction code doesn't help. I'm not sure I'd want to try and use this ticket in this way myself, but others may have actual experience and advice accordingly.

In general, with the new layout of ojp.nationalrail.co.uk TOC-only restrictions seem to be displayed less clearly. Can I assume on all UK ticket websites that a ticket is valid on trains of all companies if such a restriction is not shown?
(Since tickets for that weekend are not on sale yet I've been looking up things for similar days in late April.)

Personally, I wouldn't assume this, but look up the fare details on http://www.brfares.com as above to see the details. However route "any permitted" does mean all operators; the alternative will specify something like "AP NORTHERN ONLY" which restricts the ticket's use to the named operator.

 

[MrJeeves]

"Any permitted", yes, not restricted to GWR, WKE Long Wkend Rtn https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=BRI&expert=on&flow=1&multi=0&fare=16&tkt=WKE or WKD Long Wkend Rtn https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=BRI&expert=on&flow=1&multi=0&fare=17&tkt=WKD depending on days of travel, restriction codes 6U and 6T respectively.

FYI these links seem broken for me.

3 day: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=BRI&grpo=1072&tkt=WKE
4 day: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=BRI&grpo=1072&tkt=WKD

 

[jfollows]

FYI these links seem broken for me.

3 day: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=BRI&grpo=1072&tkt=WKE
4 day: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=BRI&grpo=1072&tkt=WKD

Thanks, I’ve edited now.

 

[Watershed]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Is a GWR Long Weekender ticket from London to Bristol valid on the routes via Reading-Westbury and Basingstoke-Salisbury? The GWR sites says "any permitted" which should mean it is valid there, but other sources seem to indicate it is only sold by GWR, so maybe it is only valid on GWR trains?

As you say, it's routed "Any Permitted" and is thus valid on all the normal permitted routes - @jfollows has posted the list of applicable maps above. You can also use any route within 3 miles of the shortest route, although that's unlikely to permit anything substantially different.

The Long Weekender is an unusual ticket type and therefore not all retailers have added it to their whitelist. But it doesn't have any operator restrictions.

In general, with the new layout of ojp.nationalrail.co.uk TOC-only restrictions seem to be displayed less clearly. Can I assume on all UK ticket websites that a ticket is valid on trains of all companies if such a restriction is not shown?

In general, yes. That's the default position established in the NRCoT, although it's always a good idea to check the T&Cs of the ticket type to be sure.

Specifically, I want to travel London-Bristol on Fri 7 June and back on Mon 10 June and "tick off" the London-Staines-Reading-Newbury-Westbury and London-Woking-Basingstoke-Andover-Salisbury routes (not sure yet in which order; I might decide on the day itself), since I've done the main line via Didcot already; both these routes are included in "any permitted" tickets from London to Bristol, aren't they?

Technically speaking, you must proceed via Swindon if you travel to Reading via Staines - as there isn't a mapped route that goes via both Staines and Westbury, only a mapped route via Staines and Swindon..

In practice, you will be fine. You'll be changing at Reading, so the guards on the trains either side won't know what route you are/have been taking on the other side of Reading. In any event, I cannot imagine any member of staff having such an encyclopedic knowledge of the Routeing Guide as to know it's technically not permitted to mix permitted routes in this manner!

I need to connect to Eurostar at St Pancras arriving Fri 13:57 and leaving Mon 15:04, with preferably some flexibility if connections fail, so no Advance tickets if I can help it, and Super-Off-Peak seems a bit restrictive; Off-Peak might be okay. Long Weekender seems to be the way to go, but I'm open to other suggestions up to about £ 100 for the return. No railcards.

Given these timings I'd suggest travelling out via Salisbury and back via Westbury and Reading. This would allow you to buy a Super Off-Peak Return, route 'Warminster-Salisbury' costing £51.50, for the outward journey. You'd then obtain a 'change of route excess' at any ticket office (or from any guard) for the return portion to make it 'Any Permitted' - this would cost half the difference, i.e. £9.85. The total cost would thus be £61.35.

The time restrictions of the Super Off-Peak Return, route 'Warminster-Salisbury', are as shown in restriction code UP. The salient part is that you can't leave Waterloo between 16:00 and 19:00, so the last valid train towards Salisbury would be the 15:50. You should be able to make it from St Pancras to Waterloo in about 30 minutes - lots of options for doing so, but I would suggest the Victoria line then a cross-platform interchange to the Bakerloo line at Oxford Circus. The key point being that your Eurostar would have to be significantly delayed for you to miss the 15:50.

Just in case your outbound Eurostar is really late, you might like to buy the above ticket from a retailer that allows fee-free refunds (such as Southern if you select collection at a machine and haven't collected the ticket yet, or Railsmartr). This way, if necessary, you can refund it and buy a Long Weekender ticket instead. The Long Weekender ticket is available on the day of travel and doesn't have any time restrictions, as you say.

The return portion, excessed to 'Any Permitted', would have restriction code YU. The salient restriction here is that you can't leave Bristol Temple Meads before 09:45. There happens to be a 09:45 to Westbury, where you'd arrive at 10:32 - there's then a 10:47 from there to Reading (via Newbury). You'd arrive at Reading at 11:41, and the next train to Waterloo would then be the 12:09, arriving at Waterloo at 13:34.

That allows just enough time before your return Eurostar (90 mins - the minimum connection time is 71 mins), although I'll admit that's not a hugely generous amount of leeway and without a through ticket you wouldn't strictly speaking be entitled to take the next Eurostar if you missed yours. That being said, Eurostar tend to be reasonably generous in practice so I wouldn't be overly worried about it - and your plan does allow sufficient time to meet the MCT.

(Since tickets for that weekend are not on sale yet I've been looking up things for similar days in late April.)

Worth noting that these dates fall into the new June timetable, so there might be some slight changes to timings - although we're not expecting anything major to change for either GWR or SWR. Any large changes would only arise as a result of engineering works, which are usually limited to weekends, Bank Holidays, or school holidays.

But all sorts of other conditions such as mandatory reservation in one direction and no outward break of journey imply that it's intended to be a GWR-only thing, and a lack of detail on the restriction code doesn't help. I'm not sure I'd want to try and use this ticket in this way myself, but others may have actual experience and advice accordingly.

The conditions shown on the GWR website make clear it's a fully flexible walk-up ticket (on the days it's valid) with break of journey being permitted and no time restrictions. Admittedly staff at other operators may be unfamiliar with it, but it's valid on all permitted routes without time restrictions.

 

[gpvos]

Thanks for all the tips!

Given these timings I'd suggest travelling out via Salisbury and back via Westbury and Reading. This would allow you to buy a Super Off-Peak Return, route 'Warminster-Salisbury' costing £51.50, for the outward journey. You'd then obtain a 'change of route excess' at any ticket office (or from any guard) for the return portion to make it 'Any Permitted' - this would cost half the difference, i.e. £9.85. The total cost would thus be £61.35.

That's an interesting trick, I didn't know about "change of route excess" yet.

The salient restriction here is that you can't leave Bristol Temple Meads before 09:45. There happens to be a 09:45 to Westbury, where you'd arrive at 10:32 - there's then a 10:47 from there to Reading (via Newbury). You'd arrive at Reading at 11:41, and the next train to Waterloo would then be the 12:09, arriving at Waterloo at 13:34.

I'd rather leave a bit sooner from Bristol to have a larger margin. So I think it's going to be the Long Weekender, and have documentation ready if the Southwestern guard doesn't know the ticket.

mandatory reservation in one direction

Ooh, I had overlooked that condition, thanks for noting it. Seems very hard to check for the guards, or at least easy to circumvent by getting a reservation for random trains on both legs and showing the one for the other leg when asked for it.

 

[Watershed]

Ooh, I had overlooked that condition, thanks for noting it. Seems very hard to check for the guards, or at least easy to circumvent by getting a reservation for random trains on both legs and showing the one for the other leg when asked for it.

That restriction only applies in the industry data used by booking engines; it's not a condition of the ticket. The GWR conditions describe it very clearly as a "fully flexible walk-up ticket" and state that break of journey is permitted; this (together with it being routed Any Permitted) makes clear it's valid on all the usual permitted routes.

 

[Snow1964]

Looks like GWR is extending Long weekender validity

A groundbreaking rail ticket that offers fully flexible weekend travel, giving passengers the freedom to journey on Fridays or Saturdays and return on Mondays has now been extended.

With thousands of additional route options available, this ticket transforms weekend getaways, making spontaneous adventures more accessible than ever.

Great Western Railway launched the Long Weekender ticket earlier this year to offer full flexibility to those who want a weekend getaway, while providing a cheaper more comfortable return journey on a Monday. It was however limited to certain routes, travelling away from London.

Now the train operator has extended the use of the ticket across its network, offering more than 5,500 different route combinations including towards London for the first time.

The ticket allows customers to depart at any time on Friday or Saturday, including during the peaks, and return at any time on Monday, offering more than 50% off the cost of a peak Anytime return.

New rail ticket unleashes weekend travel with thousands more routes | GWR News

Make the most of Summer: Save over 50% and get an extra day away!

news.gwr.com

There is another page that says can book upto 18th October on selected routes, but unhelpfully doesn't say which routes are selected

The Long Weekender | Great Western Railway

Leave on a Friday or Saturday, return on a Monday and save over 50% compared to an Anytime Return with the Long Weekender ticket.

www.gwr.com

 

[Haywain]

Looks like GWR is extending Long weekender validity

That appears top be extending availability, not validity (I realise this may be seen as picky, but I think it's an important distinction). Aside from that, there's a notable lack of information about the terms and conditions of the ticket (refunds, flexibility etc).

 

[30907]

That appears top be extending availability, not validity (I realise this may be seen as picky, but I think it's an important distinction). Aside from that, there's a notable lack of information about the terms and conditions of the ticket (refunds, flexibility etc).

I assume they are unchanged: outward travel as dated, no BOJ but otherwise unrestricted. Pricing is about half way between Offpeak and SuperOffpeak.

Unlike the Weekend Return of old, no Sunday travel so "see a friend this long weekend"

Edit: BOJ is permitted.

 

[gpvos]

Regarding my trip: my plans changed and I wanted to travel part of the outward route on Friday and part on Saturday, with a night in Winchester. In the end I used advance tickets for those days, and an off-peak single on the way back since my plans for that only solidified on the day itself.

 

[jfollows]

I assume they are unchanged: outward travel as dated, no BOJ but otherwise unrestricted. Pricing is about half way between Offpeak and SuperOffpeak.

Unlike the Weekend Return of old, no Sunday travel so "see a friend this long weekend"

Restriction codes are now shown properly, unlike earlier:
6T Out Friday, return Monday, break of journey is not permitted outward.
6U Out Saturday, return Monday, break of journey is not permitted outward.

Reservation(s) are required for EITHER the outward or the return journey.

... whatever that means in practice.
(Unless other destinations have other restriction codes, I only looked at London-Bristol.)

 

[CyrusWuff]

That appears top be extending availability, not validity (I realise this may be seen as picky, but I think it's an important distinction). Aside from that, there's a notable lack of information about the terms and conditions of the ticket (refunds, flexibility etc).

Terms and Conditions are included on the dedicated page on GWR's website, but should really be included as part of the Press Release as well. They also appear to be available through all retailers, despite the claim in the press release that they're exclusive to GWR.com.

Summary:

Restrictions: Outward travel on Friday or Saturday (depending on the ticket type), Return on Monday. No time restrictions in either direction.
Break of Journey: Permitted on both legs, but not valid for travel on Sunday in either direction.
Reservations: Optional
Refunds: Yes, in line with other walk-up fares
Discounts: Normal Child and Railcard discounts apply, as does GroupSave

 

[30907]

Terms and Conditions are included on the dedicated page on GWR's website, but should really be included as part of the Press Release as well. They also appear to be available through all retailers, despite the claim in the press release that they're exclusive to GWR.com.

Summary:

Restrictions: Outward travel on Friday or Saturday (depending on the ticket type), Return on Monday. No time restrictions in either direction.
Break of Journey: Permitted on both legs, but not valid for travel on Sunday in either direction.
Reservations: Optional
Refunds: Yes, in line with other walk-up fares
Discounts: Normal Child and Railcard discounts apply, as does GroupSave

Thanks - for some reason I didn't look in the obvious place