London Midland - Revenue & Protection Security Managers

[atochopefull]

Has anyone applied for this job? Vacancies in Birmingham, Crewe and Milton Keynes. Anyone got any news?

 

[kelv]

I saw this as well, was wondering also .... are n/west based jobs with LM few and far between ? as crewe is the furthest North that I've seen anything & that was probably the only vacancy.

 

[12guard4]

I saw this as well, was wondering also .... are n/west based jobs with LM few and far between ? as crewe is the furthest North that I've seen anything & that was probably the only vacancy.

Crewe is the most northerly depot which LM have there isn't a massive amount of recruitment there really. LM seem to recruit for Birmingham and Northampton primarily.

 

[atochopefull]

Anyone else applied or heard anything? Will there be a shift allowance paid on top of a basic salary?

 

[plastictaffy]

AIUI, the salary is the salary. A lot is expected of you for the money they are paying. You are expected to do blocks on stations, patrol trains all over the network, (although the ones we have like to chase 2 pound 30 fares around Birmingham) deal with MG11's and dish out penalty fares.

 

[atochopefull]

AIUI, the salary is the salary. A lot is expected of you for the money they are paying. You are expected to do blocks on stations, patrol trains all over the network, (although the ones we have like to chase 2 pound 30 fares around Birmingham) deal with MG11's and dish out penalty fares.

AIUI? What's that mean? Job sounds quite interesting. How does it compare to the guards role?

 

[yorkie]

AUAI means "as I understand it"

It's nothing like a Guards role, the only thing in common is that a commercial Guard spends some time doing ticket duties - but that is secondary to everything else. The salary will also be lower than that of a Guard. Not sure what LM Guards get, but there was a thread comparing salaries a couple of years ago here. LM Guards probably get commission (I'm sure someone can confirm if they do or not), but a revenue protection job almost certainly wouldn't.

 

[HLE]

LM guards do get commission. Either 2/5% , can't remember what was said.

 

[185]

The salary will also be lower than that of a Guard. Not sure what LM Guards get

It's actually a higher basic wage than Guards/SC/Cons - however I assume it's an MS grade position, so little or no overtime.

 

[felix]

I am currently one of the Revenue managers and there is no overtime or shift allowance. The job is very flexible and demanding at times, having said that it is also a very enjoyable role. Many other LM staff don't seem to like revenue protection or actually get what we do until they spend the day shadowing us. Everyone has an opinion on how revenue protecton should or shouldnt be done, as i have an opinon on how senior conductor may or may not complete their on train duties. If you are happy earning £30k doing on call duties 1 week in 5 and don't mind confrontation it's a great job to have.

 

[atochopefull]

I am currently one of the Revenue managers and there is no overtime or shift allowance. The job is very flexible and demanding at times, having said that it is also a very enjoyable role. Many other LM staff don't seem to like revenue protection or actually get what we do until they spend the day shadowing us. Everyone has an opinion on how revenue protecton should or shouldnt be done, as i have an opinon on how senior conductor may or may not complete their on train duties. If you are happy earning £30k doing on call duties 1 week in 5 and don't mind confrontation it's a great job to have.

Do you work alone or in a team/with a partner. What are the shift hours like? Is there absolutely no opportunity to earn overtime? Is it a more senior role compared to the guard/conductor? What opportunities does it open up? Any info greatly appreciated!

 

[the sniper]

Many other LM staff don't seem to like revenue protection or actually get what we do until they spend the day shadowing us.

I don't think it's true that they're not liked. If anything it's just that there's little interaction between Revenue and the operational or even station grades. Together with most of the RPMs being new(ish), coming in from external, the decimation of the previous revenue department, many of whom were well known and popular across grades with many years service, and the traditional issues around mistrust of 'management', the RPMs are a bit of a tough sell.

I suppose there just isn't much common ground, but I've never heard of anyone really having something against the RPMs.

 

[felix]

I don't think it's true that they're not liked. If anything it's just that there's little interaction between Revenue and the operational or even station grades. Together with most of the RPMs being new(ish), coming in from external, the decimation of the previous revenue department, many of whom were well known and popular across grades with many years service, and the traditional issues around mistrust of 'management', the RPMs are a bit of a tough sell.

I suppose there just isn't much common ground, but I've never heard of anyone really having something against the RPMs.

There is a lot of interaction between revenue and station grades but some choose not to want to provide us with information etc. Some people have come around to the way we now work and while we know we are never going to cure ticket less travel we have come along way in reducing it in certain areas on the network. In the Birmingham team there is only 2 external RPMs out of 10.
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Do you work alone or in a team/with a partner. What are the shift hours like? Is there absolutely no opportunity to earn overtime? Is it a more senior role compared to the guard/conductor? What opportunities does it open up? Any info greatly appreciated!

RPMs rarely work alone it is usually a team of around 3/4 minimum and upto 10. Shifts vary depending on intelligence received, most shifts are usually 7.24 hours and we work a 5 day week, with earliest shift starting at 05.00 and latest shift finishing around 22.00, depending on the duty and where we have been working. Although we have to be fully flexible and start/finish times vary. There is no opportunity to earn overtime as this is taken as TOIL. RPMs are classed as PM1 which is a managemnet grade, there is no direct progression but sideways movement to customer service manager etc which is a higher paid salary.

If you are looking for your first management role in the railway then this is a great place to start. I feel like I am selling the job when I really am not.

 

[plastictaffy]

LM guards do get commission. Either 2/5% , can't remember what was said.

We do get commission, yes. It's 5% up to the first 200 pounds a week, and 10% after that. I usually bring in somewhere between 100 and 150 a month to me.
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The salary will also be lower than that of a Guard. Not sure what LM Guards get,

We're on 29,200 with the payrise we've just had. As the second class citizens we are, we were lucky to get that!!!
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If you are happy earning £30k doing on call duties 1 week in 5 and don't mind confrontation it's a great job to have.

That's flat, right?? Or you can come on as a Guard and earn 29200 without Sundays!!! Lots less conflict and no arguing with scrotes that don't wanna pay - you can just chuck 'em off!!!
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Was just trying to PM you, Felix - then I realised that you've not enough posts to allow PM's.

 

[387star]

We do get commission, yes. It's 5% up to the first 200 pounds a week, and 10% after that. I usually bring in somewhere between 100 and 150 a month to me.
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We're on 29,200 with the payrise we've just had. As the second class citizens we are, we were lucky to get that!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That's flat, right?? Or you can come on as a Guard and earn 29200 without Sundays!!! Lots less conflict and no arguing with scrotes that don't wanna pay - you can just chuck 'em off!!!
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Was just trying to PM you, Felix - then I realised that you've not enough posts to allow PM's.

At fgw/gwr commission is 1% all tickets up to £1000 per four week period then 5% anything on top

Your commission sounds fantastic in comparison

Most I've made is £60 though I didn't work on a route with many ticket sales

Sunday was often best for ticket sales add the time and a quarter on and you can see why sundays are lucrative (£20 an hour)

 

[craigybagel]

We do get commission, yes. It's 5% up to the first 200 pounds a week, and 10% after that. I usually bring in somewhere between 100 and 150 a month to me.

First £200 worth of tickets you sell, or £200 commission you earn? The former seems extremely generous, the latter almost impossible to reach!

 

[atochopefull]

There is a lot of interaction between revenue and station grades but some choose not to want to provide us with information etc. Some people have come around to the way we now work and while we know we are never going to cure ticket less travel we have come along way in reducing it in certain areas on the network. In the Birmingham team there is only 2 external RPMs out of 10.
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RPMs rarely work alone it is usually a team of around 3/4 minimum and upto 10. Shifts vary depending on intelligence received, most shifts are usually 7.24 hours and we work a 5 day week, with earliest shift starting at 05.00 and latest shift finishing around 22.00, depending on the duty and where we have been working. Although we have to be fully flexible and start/finish times vary. There is no opportunity to earn overtime as this is taken as TOIL. RPMs are classed as PM1 which is a managemnet grade, there is no direct progression but sideways movement to customer service manager etc which is a higher paid salary.

If you are looking for your first management role in the railway then this is a great place to start. I feel like I am selling the job when I really am not.

Is there a reason why you wouldn't sell the job? Sounds pretty good. In relation to the shifts, do they change daily, or is it a week of earlies, week of lates or a mixture? Is the rota published in advance so you can organise your life??

 

[felix]

Is there a reason why you wouldn't sell the job? Sounds pretty good. In relation to the shifts, do they change daily, or is it a week of earlies, week of lates or a mixture? Is the rota published in advance so you can organise your life??

No reason why I wouldn't sell the job, it is a great job. There is no fixed shift pattern and we are fully flexible and usually work on a 4 week roster which is usually agreed between the team in advance. That's how we work in Birmingham anyway, Crewe and milton Keynes may work differently. If for any reason you need to change start times etc this is usually exceptable 9 times out of 10, So it is a great work/life balance.

 

[the sniper]

We do get commission, yes. It's 5% up to the first 200 pounds a week, and 10% after that. I usually bring in somewhere between 100 and 150 a month to me.

Worth pointing out that the bit in bold is only applicable to ex-Silverlink territory. There's no 10% up north...

 

[plastictaffy]

First £200 worth of tickets you sell, or £200 commission you earn? The former seems extremely generous, the latter almost impossible to reach!

The former. 200 in commission is not impossible at all to reach - we have Guards that frequently take 3-400 a month - I'll let you do the math to work out how much they're paying in!! If I can do enough to pay for the finance on my car (139 a month) then I'm a happy teddy.
As the sniper correctly pointed out, for various reasons that I don't feel suitably qualified to comment on, the 10% rate doesn't apply up north. I believe it was the T's and C's of a payrise way back in the mists of time.

 

[craigybagel]

The former. 200 in commission is not impossible at all to reach - we have Guards that frequently take 3-400 a month - I'll let you do the math to work out how much they're paying in!! If I can do enough to pay for the finance on my car (139 a month) then I'm a happy teddy.
As the sniper correctly pointed out, for various reasons that I don't feel suitably qualified to comment on, the 10% rate doesn't apply up north. I believe it was the T's and C's of a payrise way back in the mists of time.

Didn't think you guys would do so well down south with all those barriers! I'm on about £250 a month but that's with an awful lot of rdw. It was the £200 a week bit that had me dreaming

Apart from a cheaper cost of living, are there any perks the north get in their T&Cs the south don't? All the differences I've heard of seem to favour the ex silverlink depots.

 

[atochopefull]

No reason why I wouldn't sell the job, it is a great job. There is no fixed shift pattern and we are fully flexible and usually work on a 4 week roster which is usually agreed between the team in advance. That's how we work in Birmingham anyway, Crewe and milton Keynes may work differently. If for any reason you need to change start times etc this is usually exceptable 9 times out of 10, So it is a great work/life balance.

Are Revenue Managers mostly made up of ex-police officers who might have confrontation experience, or is that not a criteria for the job?

 

[felix]

Are Revenue Managers mostly made up of ex-police officers who might have confrontation experience, or is that not a criteria for the job?

No not at all, we only have 2 ex specials in our birmingham team. I had minimal confrontational experience when I started the role 14 months ago. It's something you seem to get used to.

 

[sd0733]

Worth pointing out that the bit in bold is only applicable to ex-Silverlink territory. There's no 10% up north...

5% of everything at the moment for us, even that vanishes in March and drops to 3% of london midlands share of the ticket I.e pretty much nothing really!

 

[craigybagel]

5% of everything at the moment for us, even that vanishes in March and drops to 3% of london midlands share of the ticket I.e pretty much nothing really!

Who let that one slip through? That's pathetic! Is it part of your last pay deal?

 

[the sniper]

Who let that one slip through? That's pathetic! Is it part of your last pay deal?

That's what it was originally. The 5% is a trial that has been prolonged.

 

[sd0733]

Who let that one slip through? That's pathetic! Is it part of your last pay deal?

Yes as 'The Sniper' says until about 3 years ago that was what we got then when the messroom at New Street shut and we had to go over to the guildhall it was part of a package of sweeteners for that. Its been extended a couple of times but now New street, international, coventry, stoke et al are barriered the company no longer sees it as gaining any extra revenue and so its gone.

 

[craigybagel]

Ah right - I'd assumed it'd been sold off by your colleagues in the West Midlands who can't make much commission. Surely the same argument could be made for the south though with Northampton, Milton Keynes, Watford Junction, and of course most of the LM platforms at Euston barriered?

Sounds like the RPMs actually have a pretty decent deal.

 

[LowLevel]

I suspect Felix your position with your colleagues is much down to London Midland's treatment of the former revenue protection teams. Getting rid of people's jobs and replacing them with so called 'managers' that don't actually do anything in the way of managing but have the benefit to the company of being at the beck and call of the company without overtime etc is rarely popular!

It's not fair that it's taken out on the people who take on the jobs but it is what it is.

For what it's worth it's been seen elsewhere to an extent in ex Central land - EMT have increased the numbers of ex MML style 'revenue protection officers', particularly part time ones, while choosing to displace and not fill vacancies for the vast majority of the ex Central 'assistant ticket examiners' except some remaining part timers which you could count on the fingers of one hand which has resulted in some hostility to RPOs from the ex Central train crew having seen their friends who they worked with for years pushed out of jobs they enjoy.

 

[plastictaffy]

Surely the same argument could be made for the south though with Northampton, Milton Keynes, Watford Junction, and of course most of the LM platforms at Euston barriered?

The barriers have to be manned for that!!! I've lost count of the amount of times I've had email telling me that the barriers at one or most of those stations are open. We also have a lot of stations that have barriers but aren't manned, as well as some that don't have barriers at all. Bletchley and Hemel fall into the former, with Wolverton and Leighton Buzzard falling into the latter category along with plenty of others.
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I suspect Felix your position with your colleagues is much down to London Midland's treatment of the former revenue protection teams. Getting rid of people's jobs and replacing them with so called 'managers' that don't actually do anything in the way of managing but have the benefit to the company of being at the beck and call of the company without overtime etc is rarely popular!

I think that pretty much covers it......
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The change in sd0733's and others commission was, AIUI, voted on by the ex-Central Guards as part of a pay deal offered to them. It was also voted on by the ex-Silverlink Guards, who voted against it. So much for 'Harmonisation'.