London Off-Peak Day Travelcard + Boundary Zone 6 to Luton/Stansted/Gatwick

[drueberflug]

I'm just wondering whether you can combine an Off-Peak Day Travelcard with an extension ticket from Boundary Zone 6 to either Luton (Thameslink and EMR), Stansted (Greater Anglia), or Gatwick (GTR), especially on EMR, who have services that do not stop between STP and BZ6.

 

[Haywain]

I'm just wondering whether you can combine an Off-Peak Day Travelcard with an extension ticket from Boundary Zone 6 to either Luton (Thameslink and EMR), Stansted (Greater Anglia), or Gatwick (GTR), especially on EMR, who have services that do not stop between STP and BZ6.

In all cases, yes, you can.

 

[Watershed]

For reference, the whole point of Boundary Zone fares is to extend a Travelcard to make a journey that goes beyond the Zones. Condition 14.3 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel allows you to travel non-stop through your 'split' station when combining a zonal ticket with another ticket:

14.3 Unless Condition 14.1 applies, if you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger, or rover, in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination to be valid.

So it is absolutely fine if your train doesn't call at any stations within Zones 1-6. Not only is this allowed, I would argue it is an entirely intended outcome.

 

[Richardr]

Out of interest, how does one buy a ticket from boundary zone 6? I couldn't see how to put it in a ticket website [looking at say Thameslink to Luton Airport]? Has it another name?

 

[drueberflug]

Out of interest, how does one buy a ticket from boundary zone 6? I couldn't see how to put it in a ticket website [looking at say Thameslink to Luton Airport]? Has it another name?

No, Avanti and C2C seem to be one of the few who can sell them online for any operator.
Another option would be ticket offices (any) and some ticket machines (e.g. the Thameslink ones at St Pancras from what I've heard).

 

[sqwizz]

I was looking at this earlier too, but the Avanti site was willing to sell me a return ticket that apparently wasn't valid on any return trains. Perhaps that's just a website issue? (Doesn't matter anyway since I found a ticket from East Croydon was significantly cheaper than the Boundary Zone 6 anyway, due to it offering a Super Off-Peak.)

 

[drueberflug]

I was looking at this earlier too, but the Avanti site was willing to sell me a return ticket that apparently wasn't valid on any return trains. Perhaps that's just a website issue? (Doesn't matter anyway since I found a ticket from East Croydon was significantly cheaper than the Boundary Zone 6 anyway, due to it offering a Super Off-Peak.)

View attachment 177831

I'm glad you also checked fares from East Croydon, but e.g. for Luton Airport, buying a ticket from Elstree and Borehamwood (zone 6) would give me a Super Off-Peak ticket with the same price.

I think that the website struggles to display train connections where the ticket does not cover the entire journey.

 

[Richardr]

I'm glad you also checked fares from East Croydon, but e.g. for Luton Airport, buying a ticket from Elstree and Borehamwood (zone 6) would give me a Super Off-Peak ticket with the same price.

I think that the website struggles to display train connections where the ticket does not cover the entire journey.

Does it work for specified stations if the train doesn't stop at the station?

 

[Watershed]

Does it work for specified stations if the train doesn't stop at the station?

Are you asking whether it's valid to split at a named station rather than Boundary Zone X? If so, in theory the answer is that it's only permitted to do a non-stop split if the named station you split at, is the last station where your zonal ticket is valid.

However, as there is ambiguity as to whether a services which uses the Quarry lines is deemed to pass through the likes of Coulsdon South or not, this strict requirement is generally not enforced and split tickets from East Croydon would be accepted too. Revenue staff don't seem to mind that you're "double covering" yourself for a short distance (at least as far as Purley).

 

[Richardr]

Are you asking whether it's valid to split at a named station rather than Boundary Zone X? If so, in theory the answer is that it's only permitted to do a non-stop split if the named station you split at, is the last station where your zonal ticket is valid.

Thanks - to be fair re-reading above, it is covered by your earlier post and quoting that "the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination to be valid" answers my question.

 

[drueberflug]

EMR have replied to my email today saying that this ticket combination is invalid, or that's at least what I have understood from this.
(Sorry, English is not my first language.)

 

[Watershed]

EMR have replied to my email today saying that this ticket combination is invalid.

That response is completely wrong. All Travelcards allow extensions via Boundary Zone tickets, under NRCoT 14.3.

The nonsensical suggestion that this is "not a standard feature" demonstrates that whoever wrote that response has little to no understanding of the way that Travelcards work.

If this is deemed too complex a query for a frontline customer service rep to answer (it really shouldn't be!) then the training should have told them to pass it to someone who knows the answer. Taking a stab in the dark is worse than not answering.

 

[signed]

EMR have replied to my email today saying that this ticket combination is invalid, or that's at least what I have understood from this.
(Sorry, English is not my first language.)

View attachment 178190

Some Day Travelcards: they are all the same now.
A separate extension ticket: Which is the whole point of Boundary Zone tickets

 

[drueberflug]

That response is completely wrong. All Travelcards allow extensions via Boundary Zone tickets, under NRCoT 14.3.

If this is deemed too complex a query for a frontline customer service rep to answer (it really shouldn't be!) then the training should have told them to pass it to someone who knows the answer.

Should I try to ask them again or anything, as I do not want to risk any kind of conviction in a country that is foreign to me?

 

[redreni]

What an awful way to treat a visitor from abroad!

I do not think there is any realistic risk of a foreign national being convicted in a criminal court over having the wrong ticket on a single occasion. They might sell you a new ticket in which case you would have to pursue them for a refund. Even that is unlikely.

I have used a boundary zone ticket and Day Travelcard combination on the Luton Airport to St Pancras train before and it was accepted by the ticket inspector without any problems. Unlike the customer services department, the staff on the trains do receive extensive training about ticketing.

Keine probleme!

 

[Watershed]

Should I try to ask them again or anything, as I do not want to risk any kind of conviction in a country that is foreign to me?

You could if you wanted to, but I don't see there is any real point. The customer service staff don't really understand ticketing as they aren't given any proper training on it.

I understand your concern about a conviction, but it isn't something you need to worry about.

From a legal perspective, it is absolutely a valid combination of tickets; it is what Boundary Zone tickets are intended for. And from a practical perspective, staff will encounter these combinations from time to time and I would not expect them to give you any trouble.

In the event you were to have any problems, the forum would be able to assist you in resolving the matter.

 

[talldave]

EMR have replied to my email today saying that this ticket combination is invalid, or that's at least what I have understood from this.
(Sorry, English is not my first language.)

View attachment 178190

What utter rubbish. The "separate extension ticket" exists and is a Boundary Zone 6 to Luton Airport ticket. How it can generally not be valid is anybody's guess. I'd love to hear their explanation of which Day Travelcards "allow" it - perhaps just those sold to customers called Nigel?

And presumably Weekly, Monthly and Annual Travelcards don't ever allow the use of a generally not valid separate extension ticket?

I'd forward this to the CEO as a great example of how useless their customer services department is.

I think we should have a Rail Forums annual award for the most ludicrous rubbish spouted by TOCs. This is gobbledegook gold!