London Terminals to London Underground Zones 1-6 for Heathrow

[mad_rich]

Journey was Euston to Heathrow T4 by Northern Line & Elizabeth Line on a Sunday evening, holding a Network Railcard.

I thought the cheapest ticket would be an Off-Peak Day Single for £9.95 and tried to buy this from a machine at Chester without success. With a few minutes before my train to London, I also tried the ticket office at Chester. After a lot of button pressing and quizzical looking, the guy couldn't find the ticket. He instead suggested London Terminals - London Undergrnd Zones 1-6 for £7.95. I wasn't sure that this was valid on the Liz Line, but he said he thought it was, so I bought it.

I still wasn't certain, so I asked again at the ticket office in Euston. I wanted to know if it was valid, and if not if I could excess it to the correct ticket. Quite rude staff member barely looked at the ticket and asked me where I'd bought it from. As soon as I said Chester (TfW) he just said 'we won't touch it'. Eventually, after a little pushing from me, his neighbour said it was valid.

In the event, I used it. It didn't work in the barriers at T4, but the staff member at the gateline let me out without looking at it, so I'm still none the wiser!

Was the ticket valid?
If not, could it have been excessed/ changed?
Was the Avanti ticket office correct to 'refuse to touch it'?

Thanks in advance.

 

[trebor79]

Was the Avanti ticket office correct to 'refuse to touch it'?

No.

 

[OscarH]

I'm not convinced the ticket was valid, but I may well be corrected - London ticketing is a complete mess, especially at Heathrow. That ticket includes 1 London Underground+DLR journey, which may cross any of the 6 zones, but it doesn't include National Rail validity. It may be used on National Rail services still on "interavailable" routes where Underground tickets are valid on National Rail services. The Elizabeth line is only an interavailable route between Abbey Wood and Paddington, not further, so the that ticket wasn't valid past Paddington in my opinion.

I think the ticket that should have been issued was the (Network Railcard discounted) £9.95 London Underground Zones 1-6 - Heathrow Rail. I don't know why Chester couldn't find it, and the behaviour of the Avanti staff at Euston is frankly unacceptable although unfortunately not a surprise.

 

[alholmes]

It’s a strange price for a ticket from London to Underground z1-6. I’ve just checked the single fare finder on TfL’s website and the contactless fare from Euston to Heathrow T4 is only £5.60, and that’s with no railcard discount. So a £7.95 fare with Network railcard discount is a bit odd.

As has already been stated, the ticket to Heathrow Underground z1-6 isn’t valid on the Elizabeth Line at Heathrow, so the OP is fortunate that they were let through the gates at T4.

 

[Edvid]

I’ve just checked the single fare finder on TfL’s website and the contactless fare from Euston to Heathrow T4 is only £5.60, and that’s with no railcard discount.

That's for the Piccadilly line (Z1-Heathrow LU), assuming you don't touch out and touch back in at Hatton Cross. The Elizabeth line equivalent (Z1-Heathrow NR) is £13.30, or £12.20 if you're starting at Paddington.

 

[PeterC]

It’s a strange price for a ticket from London to Underground z1-6. I’ve just checked the single fare finder on TfL’s website and the contactless fare from Euston to Heathrow T4 is only £5.60, and that’s with no railcard discount. So a £7.95 fare with Network railcard discount is a bit odd.

As has already been stated, the ticket to Heathrow Underground z1-6 isn’t valid on the Elizabeth Line at Heathrow, so the OP is fortunate that they were let through the gates at T4.

There is a higher Oyster / contactless only fare to Heathrow T4 Rail. Thisdestination isn't shown from Tube stations on the single fare finder

Looks like I was beaten to it but it would be very misleading for somebody planning to travel, say, from Aldgate East with a change at Liverpool Street. The only cash ticket shown on the fare finder is £6.70 to T4 Underground. You enter through an Underground ticket barrier and change seamlessly at Liverpool Street* to a train deeper underground with big roundels. Why would anybody who is not a rail nerd expect to pay anything different?

* OK a Londoner would know to change at Farringdon with the OSI

 

[Edvid]

It is, but you have to select a Rail Station (not Underground Station) suffixed Heathrow station for Liz line journeys.

 

[PeterC]

It is, but you have to select a Rail Station (not Underground Station) suffixed Heathrow station for Liz line journeys.

When you start typing you are offered a drop down which only shows the Underground stations at Heathrow. You have to ignore that and type "Heathrow" in full to get all the options.

 

[Watershed]

Journey was Euston to Heathrow T4 by Northern Line & Elizabeth Line on a Sunday evening, holding a Network Railcard.

I thought the cheapest ticket would be an Off-Peak Day Single for £9.95 and tried to buy this from a machine at Chester without success. With a few minutes before my train to London, I also tried the ticket office at Chester. After a lot of button pressing and quizzical looking, the guy couldn't find the ticket. He instead suggested London Terminals - London Undergrnd Zones 1-6 for £7.95. I wasn't sure that this was valid on the Liz Line, but he said he thought it was, so I bought it.

I still wasn't certain, so I asked again at the ticket office in Euston. I wanted to know if it was valid, and if not if I could excess it to the correct ticket. Quite rude staff member barely looked at the ticket and asked me where I'd bought it from. As soon as I said Chester (TfW) he just said 'we won't touch it'. Eventually, after a little pushing from me, his neighbour said it was valid.

In the event, I used it. It didn't work in the barriers at T4, but the staff member at the gateline let me out without looking at it, so I'm still none the wiser!

Was the ticket valid?
If not, could it have been excessed/ changed?
Was the Avanti ticket office correct to 'refuse to touch it'?

Thanks in advance.

The ticket office was incorrect to sell you the ticket to London Underground Zones 1-6 given your request. The ticket they sold would have been valid to travel to Heathrow using the Piccadilly line (i.e. Underground), but not using the Elizabeth line (i.e. National Rail).

That being sold, having been sold that ticket on the basis that you could use it on the Elizabeth line, contractually speaking it was valid on the Elizabeth line all the way - but had the barrier staff at Heathrow (or an RPI between Paddington and Heathrow) checked your ticket properly, you may have encountered hassle and possibly an incorrect Penalty Fare.

The correct ticket to sell would have been a London Underground Zones 1-6 to Heathrow Rail ticket, which with your Network Railcard discount would have cost £9.95. If you are returning from Heathrow within a month, it may have been cheaper to buy a period return from London Paddington (costing £16.20) and to pay for the Tube or Elizabeth line to/from Paddington separately.

The Euston ticket office staff were clearly unhelpful - but they are correct that you can only excess a ticket to a different destination if it qualifies as an overdistance excess. I don't think this would qualify, as both the fare origin and destination are different, and it's not really that you're going to a further destination - just a different station at the same airport.

The Euston staff should have told you that you needed to return your original ticket to TfW for a refund (which should be fee-free due to the misleading information given during purchase) and buy a new ticket for the correct origin / destination. Alternatively they could have endorsed your ticket as valid on the Elizabeth line if they were convinced it was correct.

 

[Edvid]

The correct ticket to sell would have been a London Underground Zones 1-6 to Heathrow Rail ticket, which with your Network Railcard discount would have cost £9.95. If you are returning from Heathrow within a month, it may have been cheaper to buy a period return from London Paddington (costing £16.20) and to pay for the Tube or Elizabeth line to/from Paddington separately.

Alternatively, a pair of off-peak Day Travelcards (£10 each way) would be better if travelling between Heathrow and Z1 after 0930.* The extra flexibility also comes in handy if issues arise on the preferred route.

[* Addendum - after 1000 and £13 minimum on weekdays, per Network Railcard T&Cs]

When you start typing you are offered a drop down which only shows the Underground stations at Heathrow. You have to ignore that and type "Heathrow" in full to get all the options.

Yes, I've noticed that as well (this goes for many other stations). Not something first-time users would get to grips with easily.

 

[Watershed]

Alternatively, a pair of off-peak Day Travelcards (£10 each way) would be better if travelling between Heathrow and Z1 after 0930. The extra flexibility also comes in handy if issues arise on the preferred route.

Indeed - although the minimum fare of £13 applicable on weekdays for Network Railcard-discounted tickets would increase the cost of doing this, if returning on a weekday. That's where the period return from Paddington would come in handy, as it's comfortably above that threshold.

 

[miklcct]

After a lot of button pressing and quizzical looking, the guy couldn't find the ticket.

I believe the retailing system is broken. The same happened to me at the Thameslink ticket offie at Farringdon as well.

When you start typing you are offered a drop down which only shows the Underground stations at Heathrow. You have to ignore that and type "Heathrow" in full to get all the options.

I tried previously at Farringdon in an attempt to buy a Boundary Zone 2 - Heathrow Rail ticket, and it didn't show up. It only offered the Underground option (which the ticket machine would told me straight to use my Oyster card).

 

[mad_rich]

Thanks for the replies. It confirms my suspicion that I was correct from the beginning!

I can forgive the TfW ticket office in Chester for not knowing the intricacies of TfL, but it’s a little embarrassing that the guy at Euston didn’t know that it was the wrong ticket.

It would be simpler to just (over)pay by contactless, just to avoid the hassle.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Thanks for the replies. It confirms my suspicion that I was correct from the beginning!

I can forgive the TfW ticket office in Chester for not knowing the intricacies of TfL, but it’s a little embarrassing that the guy at Euston didn’t know that it was the wrong ticket.

It would be simpler to just (over)pay by contactless, just to avoid the hassle.

For what it's worth, using contactless or Oyster during the off-peak window, splitting at Hayes & Harlington (exit then re-enter) gets the cost down to £10.40 (£3.50 LU zone 1 to H&H + £6.90 H&H to Heathrow). Or leave H&H station and use the SL9 (formerly X140) 'Superloop' express bus to Heathrow Central (for terminals 2&3) at a cost of £1.75 - of course this takes longer, but I'd say it's far from being a completely ridiculous route option.

Have to admit it probably wouldn't have crossed my mind to have considered a paper ticket for your journey, with the exception of thinking about whether a Day Travelcard would be worth it (bearing in mind the knowledge that Travelcards are valid on the Elizabeth line to and from Heathrow... knowledge that I appreciate one is not born with!).