London to Leeds

[shinkansen1966]

Struggling to make sense of the maps and routeing guides, so appreciate some help here.

In July, travelling from London to York. Initially, will take an afternoon (off peak train) from London to Leeds. Would like to break my outward journey in Leeds for one night. Next morning, travel approx 09:00 from Leeds to York for 10:00 meeting there. The two days later, York back to London on an afternoon train, by the quickest means.

If you travel from London to Leeds, does any permitted route include via York. From routeing maps, it looks like you can. In which case, I can buy a return from London to Leeds. The travel back from Leeds to London via York. The only thing is: would the off peak return leg from Leeds to London allow me to travel on 09:00 train from Leeds to York ? In York, I can break my journey for that two day meeting...

Thanks for any help.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ps... for the routeing guide, using maps ER+LS.

 

[tony_mac]

You can go London to York via Leeds, and continue before 12:00 the following day.

I can't check the time restrictions here, so you will have to wait for that, but it is possible that they only apply to trains to/from the south.

 

[b0b]

Struggling to make sense of the maps and routeing guides, so appreciate some help here.

In July, travelling from London to York. Initially, will take an afternoon (off peak train) from London to Leeds. Would like to break my outward journey in Leeds for one night. Next morning, travel approx 09:00 from Leeds to York for 10:00 meeting there. The two days later, York back to London on an afternoon train, by the quickest means.

If you travel from London to Leeds, does any permitted route include via York. From routeing maps, it looks like you can. In which case, I can buy a return from London to Leeds. The travel back from Leeds to London via York. The only thing is: would the off peak return leg from Leeds to London allow me to travel on 09:00 train from Leeds to York ? In York, I can break my journey for that two day meeting...

Thanks for any help.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ps... for the routeing guide, using maps ER+LS.

Ok. I think you're right that map ER+LS allows London-York-Leeds.

This is from NFM05 which has now expired, so recheck.
the Super Offpeak Return, for 83.70 allows overnight break of journey. So that part is fine.

The restrictions for the SSR:

OUTWARD TRAVEL NORTHBOUND -
by any train scheduled to
DEPART:
LONDON TERMINALSexcept as shown below) Between 0929 and 1457 inclusive & at or after 1859. Also allowed at or after 1815 on Fridays only.

So, since the Leeds to York train does not originate from a London Terminal, I believe that part should be fine as well.

 

[General Zod]

b0b,
If you continued the journey from Leeds - York the next day using XC trains ( which came via Birmingham New Street) then would restriction code 2V apply ? In OP's scenario would his ticket be valid on a XC train at 9 or 10am train from Leeds ?

Cheers,
Z

 

[b0b]

b0b,
If you continued the journey from Leeds - York the next day using XC trains ( which came via Birmingham New Street) then would restriction code 2V apply ? In OP's scenario would his ticket be valid on a XC train at 9 or 10am train from Leeds ?

I don't know the in's and outs of how it works with BOJ, but the usual rule as I understand it is that the restrictions come with the ticket, so since the ticket is a London to Leeds ticket, the restrictions come from the London-Leeds and not any other route due to the trains you choose.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Thanks for the help and contributions here. Beginning to wonder if I should email ATOC and see what they say...

 

[tony_mac]

I don't know the in's and outs of how it works with BOJ, but the usual rule as I understand it is that the restrictions come with the ticket, so since the ticket is a London to Leeds ticket, the restrictions come from the London-Leeds and not any other route due to the trains you choose.

Yes, but sometimes there is a note in the restriction saying something like 'For journeys via Birmingham, see code 2V instead'. But I don't think that will apply here, as the journey itself isn't via Birmingham, so there is no need to look at that restriction - even if the train you are boarding went via Birmingham.

 

[b0b]

Thanks for the help and contributions here. Beginning to wonder if I should email ATOC and see what they say...

you'll probably get shot down as they don't like to deal with hypothetical journeys.

the usual advice applies, go to one of the travel sites and get an ticket itinerary that shows London Leeds Via York and hopefully says BOJ allowed on outward portion. Show to anyone who challenges your ticket.

 

[tony_mac]

The problem would be that you can't get an itinerary showing an overnight break of journey, which is not travelling on the first train in the morning (AFAIK).

I don't believe that the XC restriction would apply, and I haven't looked at what it says, so it may be irrelevant anyway.
The worst they could do is try and charge for an £11 single anyway, but if it is a worry, just take a Trans Pennine or Northern service.

 

[b0b]

Here we go. from thetrainline.co.uk, i picked dates:

Outward Journey (17 Jun 2010) Depart Arrive Travel by Train company Duration
20:00 London Kings Cross 22:01 York Train EAST COAST 02h 01
22:09 York 22:51 Leeds Train NORTHERN RAIL 00h 42

SUPER OFF-PEAK RETURN
This ticket allows travel on any permitted route.
1 Adult(s) @ £83.70 : £83.70
Total: £83.70

is shown available for this trip. so that shows London-York-Leeds is good

then:
BREAK OF JOURNEY

You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel.

allowing you to break in York.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The problem would be that you can't get an itinerary showing an overnight break of journey, which is not travelling on the first train in the morning (AFAIK).

correct, but showing the London-York-Leeds itinerary should be enough to demonstrate the valid route, and then the ticket restrictions showing break of journey allowed, so he can break in York should be enough.

If you're still challenged, can he have the RPI call somebody to refresh his memory on BOJ rules?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Struggling to make sense of the maps and routeing guides, so appreciate some help here.

In July, travelling from London to York. Initially, will take an afternoon (off peak train) from London to Leeds. Would like to break my outward journey in Leeds for one night. Next morning, travel approx 09:00 from Leeds to York for 10:00 meeting there. The two days later, York back to London on an afternoon train, by the quickest means.

If you travel from London to Leeds, does any permitted route include via York. From routeing maps, it looks like you can. In which case, I can buy a return from London to Leeds. The travel back from Leeds to London via York. The only thing is: would the off peak return leg from Leeds to London allow me to travel on 09:00 train from Leeds to York ? In York, I can break my journey for that two day meeting...

Thanks for any help.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ps... for the routeing guide, using maps ER+LS.

Right, here goes.

London to Leeds is valid via York in both directions.

You may break your journey in either direction with a Super Saver Return.

So-

Day 1 - London - Leeds using outward portion. Fine. Time restrictions apply Mon - Fri - must leave London between 0929 and 1457 inclusive and at or after 1859 (1815 Fridays).

Day 2 - start return journey by going Leeds to York around 0900. Fine. Time restrictions apply, but they state not valid on trains arriving into Kings Cross before 1117, which it won't, so that doesn't apply. There is no mention of any other restrictions applying to any other TOC for that journey.

Day 4 - continue York - KGX. Fine, but not valid on any train arriving into London before 1117.

All that is fine. Current price for that is £83.70.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Thanks very much for your help here. Ready to go get my ticket !