Losing revenue on the Cambrian Coast?

[Phil from Mon]

Travelled down to Tywyn yesterday to visit the Talyllyn (and was amazed to be able to get the Coast Rover for less than £8 with my old git's railcard). The train down filled up rapidly, and a particularly large crowd got on at Dyffryn Ardudwy. There was no way the guard was able to get around to issue fares, and in fact an announcement was made just before Barmouth that there was a ticket office open there to sell fares for those who didn't have them.

It was similar on the way back, with large numbers boarding at Tywyn and Barmouth in particular. I appreciate that distances are short, but surely a lot of money is being lost on these services at this time of year?

Not sure what the answer would be, but machines at stations would help surely, although of course for most of the year they would be selling just a handful of tickets per day.

 

[GarethJohn]

A lot of the ''old Gits'' will be travelling for free anyway. Would the fares collected justify extra staff employed to collect the £3.00-£6.00 fares. Perhaps it's more cost effective to allow the rest of them on free too.

 

[thenorthern]

I am not sure of the subsidies for the Cambrian line but given from Sherewsbury to Pwllheli its 117 miles with 34 stations and a two hourly service I would expect the line to be losing money and be heavily subsidised.

 

[Blamethrower]

highest earner would probably be schools.

Summertime is different altogether though, perhaps it's worth them putting people at the busiest stations during school holidays to sell tickets and protect revenue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not sure of the subsidies for the Cambrian line but given from Sherewsbury to Pwllheli its 117 miles with 34 stations and a two hourly service I would expect the line to be losing money and be heavily subsidised.

I'm sure it is, but it's losing more than it needs to be losing by not collecting fares.

Card-only TVMs are probably a usable solution at most stations.

 

[30907]

There is at least a reasonable chance that pax on the return would have tickets.

Dyffryn and Talybont in particular are problematic because the traffic is highly seasonal and I imagine concentrated on 1 or 2 trains into Barmouth. If you had TVM's you'd then have to enforce their use, which is difficult if it applies to one or two stations only while the rest are pay-on-board (as the whole line has been for nearly 50 years).

Perhaps the best solution would be for a member of staff at Barmouth to go to the platform exit with a machine for the key morning arrivals. But is there such a person spare? The ticket office is presumably at its busiest for the same trains?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A problem which I am sure is very long standing ,.way back to BR days I recall.

Option - recruit and train some locals for summer season revenue duties on n experimental basis.? (with commission as an incentive)

 

[Phil from Mon]

Good idea Chief Planner. 30907 don't think it is an ATW ticket office, more of a tourist info place that also sells tickets. Probably is just a couple of trains a day though, and may not be worth it in the wider scheme, as noted already.

 

[Parallel]

I imagine it would be a very hard day's work to be a guard on Cambrian Coast services, particularly this time of year. The trains are very well used and I, too have heard passengers alighting at Barmouth being asked to purchase tickets at the information office. I have also heard passengers who haven't been able to purchase tickets on their outbound journey asked to buy these on the return journey back.

If the guard can't get around to everyone (often station stops 3-4 minutes apart), that the train then has to stop at every station and can end up running late as a result.

Llwyngwril, Talybont and Dyffryn Ardudwy are probably the most well-used request stops, and trains pretty much always seem to stop there - but I'm not sure for a need of TVMs there. Maybe for the mandatory stops of Aberdovey, Tywyn, Fairbourne, Barmouth, Harlech, Penrhyndeudraeth, Porthmadog, and Pwllheli, and make it so these machines can sell tickets from other stations too.

The alternative is to have a few part-time ticket inspectors based at Machynlleth and Pwllheli who can continue selling tickets whilst the guard operates the doors. Trains get very busy this time of year - Pity ATW have no spare stock as more existing services could be strengthened to 4-car, or there is infrastructure to allow an hourly service along the line. It's not just local journeys either, there seem to be plenty who stay on well past Shrewsbury!

In addition to groups of holidaymakers/daytrippers and locals using the trains, you also get a lot of hikers - One of the last times I used the line, there were two large hiking groups that boarded at Llandecwyn and Llanbedr and the train was full and standing!

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's not unusual for Coast services to run with 2 conductors at height of summer but ability for Mach and Pwl to resource it is limited.
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I am not sure of the subsidies for the Cambrian line but given from Sherewsbury to Pwllheli its 117 miles with 34 stations and a two hourly service I would expect the line to be losing money and be heavily subsidised.

Ticket buying profile is heavily skewed between two halfs of Cambrian. Coast is predominantly school traffic and short distance peak season traffic whereas mainline has all year round healthy long distance traffic.

 

[XDM]

Get the driver to release & shut the doors so the guard can give his undivided attention to collecting fares. Would work wonders,as it has on similar lines in Scandinavia,Germany & Japan from my recent experience. Hey Presto.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Get the driver to release & shut the doors so the guard can give his undivided attention to collecting fares. Would work wonders,as it has on similar lines in Scandinavia,Germany & Japan from my recent experience. Hey Presto.

Not the answer as the numbers joining from Fairbourne would still be in excess of the conductors capacity to deal with.

 

[Parallel]

Get the driver to release & shut the doors so the guard can give his undivided attention to collecting fares. Would work wonders,as it has on similar lines in Scandinavia,Germany & Japan from my recent experience. Hey Presto.

However, the guard would still have to make their way to the doors to buzz to indicate nobody wants to alight at request stops.

Also, some platforms like Minffordd are very curved and passengers possibly couldn't be supervised safely boarding and alighting trains.

Also, some stops are local door only and due to level crossings, usually only the middle doors are used - not sure a driver can open just a local door from their cab?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A lot of the ''old Gits'' will be travelling for free anyway. Would the fares collected justify extra staff employed to collect the £3.00-£6.00 fares. Perhaps it's more cost effective to allow the rest of them on free too.

Well I would guess employing an extra person to collect fares might involve paying - say - £10 an hour. Make it £15/hour to cover the admin costs, employer's NI, etc. If that person can collect five additional £3 fares in an hour, and if my estimate is not too inaccurate, then employing that person is probably breaking even. If the train is as crowded and collecting fares is as difficult as described in this thread then it would seem surprising if an extra person on the train wasn't able to collect many times that amount per hour.

 

[LowLevel]

If I can make over £1500 in a fairly steady 9 hour day on a line with most fares being a max of £7, on top of doing the doors etc, then if the Cambrian is as busy as reported I can't see how additional staff could fail to be profitable, on a seasonal basis.

 

[GarethJohn]

Well I would guess employing an extra person to collect fares might involve paying - say - £10 an hour. Make it £15/hour to cover the admin costs, employer's NI, etc. If that person can collect five additional £3 fares in an hour, and if my estimate is not too inaccurate, then employing that person is probably breaking even. If the train is as crowded and collecting fares is as difficult as described in this thread then it would seem surprising if an extra person on the train wasn't able to collect many times that amount per hour.

If it's worth it then why do they no longer employ assistants as they'd be still on them today. Its an area with high unemployment and low quality jobs, Arriva could, advertise, train & have them on duty within a fortnight yet don't see the point. At it's busiest time. Why is that then?
Even the ticket office at Barmouth is the responsibly of the Tourist Office/ Gwynedd CC and not Arriva.

 

[dk1]

Get the driver to release & shut the doors so the guard can give his undivided attention to collecting fares. Would work wonders,as it has on similar lines in Scandinavia,Germany & Japan from my recent experience. Hey Presto.

Good luck with getting that passed the unions