Mainland Italy to Sicily

[30907]

Ah so including the reversal on the mainland side, they end up pointing the same way as they were before going onto the ferry.

Exactly

 

[AdamWW]

Well I had the chance to try it out for myself last week, on the Palermo to Milano sleeper.

It was much more interesting than I'd expected.

The Palermo portion was top and tailed with E464s (as were two out of the other three sleepers I saw on that section) and based on what I'd read of the day trains I assumed that one locomotive would go with us on the ferry.

But both engines came off, giving great views of the proceedings from both ends of the train. And - with the two portions combined at Messina, pushed the short distance to the ferry, then split again to fit on, there was plenty to watch.

Even better, as the train was propelled towards the ferry the crew in the leading vestibule jumped off before the linkspan to guide it the rest of the way from the ground, leaving me to stand there and look out without anyone in the way. And with the corridor doors locked partly open, so with a gap not glass to look through.

Having the doors open like this also gave much better views of the coupling and uncoupling than I've ever seen from inside a train before.

I've never seen anything quite like it and I've done a fair bit of train travel round the world.

It was also quite impressive just how many staff it took on the deck of the ferry.

On the way off the ferry of course the train doesn't have to be split once it's joined up, but there is the interest of having to reverse back into the station.

At both ends we had an orange centre-cab shunter, two flat reach wagons and a coach to push and pull us around.

There's quite a curve coming on/off the ferry on the mainland side so even in a train without views from the ends you can get a good view alongside the train to the ferry and of the shunter.

The only downside was that as I was standing in an open doorway taking photographs of the Siracusa portion being shunted on I was asked to stop taking photographs and go up on deck. I don't know if it was the photos they objected to or me still being on the train (up to that point nobody had objected at all as I took photos of everything). Once up on deck there was an announcement to say that people shoudn't go down to the train during the voyage, though I'm pretty sure lots of people stayed on the train. Maybe you have to be a bit discreet about it so they can pretend they haven't seen you.

The ferry was the Scilla which has clearly seen better days (and ones in which it also presumably saw the car deck in use). I wasn't aware of seeing any other train ferries though I believe there's a nice new one. (There ought to be a Charybdis surely?)

I would highly recommend it for anyone interested in unusual railway operations.

And just being able to do an overnight journey with a long section during the day is quite a novelty in Europe these days (never mind the impressive scenery between Palermo and Messina) - and (at least mid-week at this time of year) it is amazingly good value, even for sole use of a couchette for two people.

The compartments have been impressively refurbished - from inside I would have thought that it was a brand new coach.

They are....but will one or two electric locos also fit on the ferries?

The ferries have four tracks - each of which can accommodate four coaches. The daytime trains have eight coaches - four to/from Palermo and four to/from Siracusa - which are presently coupled/uncoupled at Villa San Giovanni. AFAIK, the night trains also have a similar consist. However another ferry - and possibly a second - is now under construction and will probably have a higher capacity.

It looks as if at least the Scilla has space for 4 coaches plus one locomotive.

The ships are single-ended, loading/offloading at the bow. There are very neat buffers at the stern, then a ramp for road traffic.

The Scilla certainly does have buffers at the stern, but the tracks seem to continue beyond them to what looks like another access. It's interesting seeing points on board the ferry itself.



The train did have catering and I presume it's official because the stock was loaded onto the train from cages lifted up to the train in Palermo.

We were given a menu that included hot meals, but with a disclaimer of selected trains only so I don't know what was actually available. We had our own supplies so I didn't ask. But catering of some sort is back, at least for now. Even dog and cat food!

I wouldn't rely on the "light breakfast" keeping you going for long though.

Finally, when we got off I discovered that at some point in the night we'd gained another three carriages at the front, labelled "charter". They didn't look occupied, but I must have slept through them being shunted on (perhaps not surprising as I was in the rear coach).

I hope that me travelling on the ferry isn't the kiss of death - the Puttgarden-Rødby ferry and Berlin Night Express ferry operation didn't last that long after I went on them and I hope that this can continue in some form for a while yet.

 

[D6130]

I hope that me travelling on the ferry isn't the kiss of death - the Puttgarden-Rødby ferry and Berlin Night Express ferry operation didn't last that long after I went on them and I hope that this can continue in some form for a while yet.

I'm pretty certain that it will continue until such time as the bridge across the strait is opened....and I can't see that happening in my lifetime!

 

[30907]

Thanks @AdamWW for the update, especially about the workings of the sleepers.

I crossed on the Messina both ways, which has an open section at the stern, as I believe does the newest one. My guess is that the Scilla was built for double-ended working of rail traffic, but it looks as though that is no longer possible.

For the record, 3 shunter "sets" are required, 2 on the mainland (one with a modern DE18 loco, one with an older D145) and one at Messina (DE18).

 

[AlbertBeale]

Isn't it the case there will be new Italian sleeper stock (for internal use) which will be fixed-formation units, rather than loco + carriages; these having something like 4 or 5 carriages as a unit, able to be driven from either end (though I don't know whether it'll be powered from both ends)? The idea being - as I understand it - that one of these units will fit on one track in the Sicily train ferries, and will be the separate units for the two island destinations (Syracuse/Palermo), being doubled up after coming off the boat on the mainland side. This will simplify and speed up the shunting, coupling/uncoupling, etc, at each side of the crossing. I think I also read that they'll be capable of using some of the mainland's high-speed lines for parts of their journeys, so that some of the longer runs won't take up such a chunk of the day as well as the night. If this happens, then the Sicily connections by rail will increase in convenience, irrespective of there being no sign of a bridge in - probably - any of our lifetimes!

 

[30907]

Isn't it the case there will be new Italian sleeper stock (for internal use) which will be fixed-formation units, rather than loco + carriages; these having something like 4 or 5 carriages as a unit, able to be driven from either end (though I don't know whether it'll be powered from both ends)? The idea being - as I understand it - that one of these units will fit on one track in the Sicily train ferries, and will be the separate units for the two island destinations (Syracuse/Palermo), being doubled up after coming off the boat on the mainland side. This will simplify and speed up the shunting, coupling/uncoupling, etc, at each side of the crossing. I think I also read that they'll be capable of using some of the mainland's high-speed lines for parts of their journeys, so that some of the longer runs won't take up such a chunk of the day as well as the night. If this happens, then the Sicily connections by rail will increase in convenience, irrespective of there being no sign of a bridge in - probably - any of our lifetimes!

There's certainly a proposal for mini-Freccias for the day trains, further in the future than batteries on the E464s; I may have missed the sleeper idea, but the existing stock (like the IC stock) isn't exactly in the first flush of youth, so it might make sense.
I don't know whether you can squeeze 5 full-length cars onto the new ferries though.

 

[AdamWW]

I'm pretty certain that it will continue until such time as the bridge across the strait is opened....and I can't see that happening in my lifetime!

I hope not.

But I didn't expect the Puttgarden-Rødby ferry to stop many years before the fixed link is expected to be completed. But then unlike Sicily I suppose there is already a longer way round without using a boat.

My guess is that the Scilla was built for double-ended working of rail traffic, but it looks as though that is no longer possible.

If trains are being shunted on and off (or doing it under their own steam if push-pull) I can't see any advantage to double-ended working. I'm assuming that at one point the Scilla also carried road vehicles (it seems to have two decks for that) in which case it would have presumably been much more useful.

I was somewhat surprised by the very large number of staff that seemed to be required on the train deck as we were propelled on. Looking at my photographs from travelling on the Berlin Night Express, they appear to have got by with a grand total of two.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I was somewhat surprised by the very large number of staff that seemed to be required on the train deck as we were propelled on. Looking at my photographs from travelling on the Berlin Night Express, they appear to have got by with a grand total of two.

But this is Italy......

 

[AdamWW]

But this is Italy......

So it is.

But the difference is really quite striking - 2 people vs around 15 (not sure quite how many on the Scilla because they moved around between photographs and I may have double counted).

 

[Snow1964]

Seems some new lines are going to be built in Sicilly

Wonder if that means the high speed units will use the ferry, or if just planning ahead of a fixed link eventually being built

Contracts awarded to build more high-speed rail lines in Italy

A consortium will build two sections of new high-speed railway along the Salerno-Reggio Calabria axis and between Palermo and Catania.

www.globalrailwayreview.com

 

[30907]

Seems some new 300km/h lines are going to be built in Sicily

Wonder if that means the high speed units will use the ferry, or if just planning ahead of a fixed link eventually being built

Contracts awarded to build more high-speed rail lines in Italy

A consortium will build two sections of new high-speed railway along the Salerno-Reggio Calabria axis and between Palermo and Catania.

www.globalrailwayreview.com

Corrected - but the only specific reference to 300km/h is on the mainland South from Salerno.

I would hazard a guess at 200km/h on Sicily, having travelled on the existing upgrades (at 160km/h max, but I think that was due to the stock used) and seen some of the new work near Catania.

Yes, there is already a proposal to create mini-Frecce to fit the ferries and allow a substantial upgrade to the present ICs (which are in any case nearly life-expired) by allowing them to use the HSL North of Salerno, potentially cutting a couple of hours off the run.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If you look at the small print, these contracts amount to bypasses of difficult sections of the existing lines.
The 35km of new line on the Salerno-Reggio route is a very small portion (10%) of the whole, and the 47km on Sicily will straighten out the middle (mountain) section of Palermo-Catania.
So there will be good journey time improvements, but nothing like a complete new line.
The proposed fixed link to Messina keeps going in/out of favour, complicated by unstable geology and environmental issues, not to mention opposition from the ports.
I think the next HSL to open in Italy will be Milan-Genoa.

 

[D6130]

If you look at the small print, these contracts amount to bypasses of difficult sections of the existing lines.
The 35km of new line on the Salerno-Reggio route is a very small portion of the whole, and the 47km on Sicily will straighten out the middle (mountain) section of Palermo-Catania.
So there will be good journey time improvements, but nothing like a complete new line.
The proposed fixed link to Messina keeps going in/out of favour, complicated by unstable geology and environmental issues, not to mention opposition from the ports.
I think the next HSL to open in Italy will be Milan-Genoa.

Correct on all counts.