Manchester Piccadilly Platforms 7 - 12: ticket gates should replace outsourced contractors

[johnsmith1979]

Surely it's about time that ticket gates are added to Piccadilly. It looks ridiculous 2/3 being gates and 1/3 being outsourced zero hour contractors (it's a tough job).

They are instructed to check every single person's Railcard - including when a busy service arrives and 100s of passengers are trying to get through. The gates don't check Railcards so why do the staff?

Isn't it about time this daft anomaly is resolved and gates go in as a universal system.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Surely it's about time that ticket gates are added to Piccadilly. It looks ridiculous 2/3 being gates and 1/3 being outsourced zero hour contractors (it's a tough job).

They are instructed to check every single person's Railcard - including when a busy service arrives and 100s of passengers are trying to get through. The gates don't check Railcards so why do the staff?

Isn't it about time this daft anomaly is resolved and gates go in as a universal system.

Fully agreed, it causes ridiculous backlogs from P13/P14.
But the problem is - who funds it?
The other gates only got installed because of franchise agreements for TPE/Avanti requiring it.
Perhaps TfGM will step in and sort it when Bee card integration comes to local rail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I totally agree that Piccadilly should have a single gateline across all platforms operated by a single TOC under contract. The split gateline is unnecessary and makes changing trains (unless you use the footbridge) more hassle.

 

[JonathanH]

The gates don't check Railcards so why do the staff?

It is possible to set gates to reject railcard tickets for manual inspection. It does happen from time to time on the network.

 

[jfollows]

I totally agree that Piccadilly should have a single gateline across all platforms operated by a single TOC under contract. The split gateline is unnecessary and makes changing trains (unless you use the footbridge) more hassle.

Essentially, back to the way it was in 1973 when I started going to school in Manchester by train, except that the people examining tickets on the single gateline would be replaced (in the main) by technology.

And, yes, it'd be great to have the platform ends opened up again as a result. I don't change train much at Piccadilly any more but the current layout is horrible for this.

 

[markymark2000]

Gateline should be staffed by whomever the station is managed by. Similarly for dispatch staff, they should be employed by the station managing company. It's completely daft and means so much duplication and waste by having multiple TOCs doing the same job within a station. Yes there can be some benefits to it such as during industrial action some services may keep running but on the whole, what a waste of taxpayers money.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Gateline should be staffed by whomever the station is managed by. Similarly for dispatch staff, they should be employed by the station managing company. It's completely daft and means so much duplication and waste by having multiple TOCs doing the same job within a station. Yes there can be some benefits to it such as during industrial action some services may keep running but on the whole, what a waste of taxpayers money.

Agreed, but I'm not sure NR would be open to the idea.

 

[Pete 1981]

I'm on Piccadilly now. I'll bob down and see how many contractors this involves. Usually around 15-20.

Currently 16 manning the 5 entrance/exit gates.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, but I'm not sure NR would be open to the idea.

At NR stations it's usually outsourced to one TOC.

 

[HSTEd]

Manchester Piccadilly likely needs a total reconstruction from the ground up. The use of contractors on the access to platform 13-14 is more a symptom of the wider issues than anything.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Manchester Piccadilly likely needs a total reconstruction from the ground up. The use of contractors on the access to platform 13-14 is more a symptom of the wider issues than anything.

I'd not agree, it's a very pleasant station (aside from 13/14, solved by adding 15/16 or changing it to wide side platforms cantilevered off the viaduct) and it is designed with an obvious place for a gateline (along the glass wall) too.

There may be grounds to rejig the platform layout Liverpool Lime St style (to get 3 x 400m platforms) but otherwise (and other than 13/14) it's fine.

 

[jfollows]

I'm on Piccadilly now. I'll bob down and see how many contractors this involves. Usually around 15-20.

Currently 16 manning the 5 entrance/exit gates.

Bonkers .... in 1973 there were often 2 or 3 people handling all the ticket checks for the entire station during quieter periods, and probably no more than 10 at peak times. With no automatic gates accounting for 75% of the checks, let's say.

 

[Russel]

I'd question how much these zero hours contractors actually know about the tickets they are looking at...

How much training to they receive?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'd question how much these zero hours contractors actually know about the tickets they are looking at...

If it's orange coloured (and either CCST or bog roll sized) and waved vaguely in their direction, that'll likely do.

 

[Russel]

If it's paper and orange coloured (and either CCST sized or bog roll) that'll undoubtedly do.

Sounds about right.

Other than being a minor deterrent, it does make you question what the point of them is.

 

[CarrotPie]

Sounds about right.

Other than being a minor deterrent, it does make you question what the point of them is.

Yet another Great British Box-Ticking Exercise?

 

[Russel]

Yet another Great British Box-Ticking Exercise?

Yep, probably.

In all fairness, last Saturday when I passed through Piccadilly, they did helpfully tell me my train was the front train in the platform, the train with the doors open and lights on as oppose to the rear train with lights off and doors locked...

Thank goodness they told me or I'd probably still be there now!

 

[AlastairFraser]

I'd question how much these zero hours contractors actually know about the tickets they are looking at...

How much training to they receive?

Not much, and it really comes down to the particular person on what type of harassment you'll receive that day sadly.

At NR stations it's usually outsourced to one TOC.

Do any of the TOCs at other NR stations operate into Picc?

 

[DLRfan1]

Yep, probably.

In all fairness, last Saturday when I passed through Piccadilly, they did helpfully tell me my train was the front train in the platform, the train with the doors open and lights on as oppose to the rear train with lights off and doors locked...

Thank goodness they told me or I'd probably still be there now!

You’d be extremely surprised at how many people need this information.

Source: I laugh internally at hundreds of people a day making this mistake

 

[wilbers]

If it's orange coloured (and either CCST or bog roll sized) and waved vaguely in their direction, that'll likely do.

Possibly for another thread (does one already exist?), but as an experiment could try waving a random old ticket (not necessarily for a journey anywhere near there) and see how many ask to see the actual ticket for the journey being made.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do any of the TOCs at other NR stations operate into Picc?

Not sure I understand the question?

 

[nr758123]

Why is it considered necessary to have a barrier between platforms 6 & 7?
This is something which occurred to me when leaving a late running arrival from Buxton on platform 10, then having to go through barriers twice to get to platform 1 only to see my connecting train for Huddersfield disappearing into the distance.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Not sure I understand the question?

Ah, I'll clarify.
Which TOCs run the gatelines in other NR stations, and do any of them serve Man Piccadilly?

 

[jfollows]

Why is it considered necessary to have a barrier between platforms 6 & 7?

There is no barrier between platforms 6 & 7 ........ did you get your numbers wrong?

 

[markymark2000]

Ah, I'll clarify.
Which TOCs run the gatelines in other NR stations, and do any of them serve Man Piccadilly?

Avanti has the New Street gateline and they serve Piccadilly. Northern staff Liverpool Lime Streets gateline (P1-6 anyway) and I believe Leeds. and they run into Piccadilly.

 

[nr758123]

There is no barrier between platforms 6 & 7 ........ did you get your numbers wrong?

Possibly between 7 & 8?

 

[HSTEd]

I'd not agree, it's a very pleasant station (aside from 13/14, solved by adding 15/16 or changing it to wide side platforms cantilevered off the viaduct) and it is designed with an obvious place for a gateline (along the glass wall) too.

There may be grounds to rejig the platform layout Liverpool Lime St style (to get 3 x 400m platforms) but otherwise (and other than 13/14) it's fine.

13/14 is probably a significant portion of the traffic through the station however.

I think if a HS2 rebuild for long platforms happen it will have to be a total reconstruction, there are likely to be too many compromises otherwise.
Pity we can't have 15/16 because, if nothing else, it would allow the elimination of a couple of terminus platforms.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Avanti has the New Street gateline and they serve Piccadilly. Northern staff Liverpool Lime Streets gateline (P1-6 anyway) and I believe Leeds. and they run into Piccadilly.

So Avanti could potentially run the whole gateline at Picc (they already run it for a few gates).
You don't want Northern doing it, because it will be the same low wage agency staff who don't care about the job - in contrast, their guards, dispatchers and drivers are usually directly employed and decently paid, so do care about it.

 

[Bungle965]

You don't want Northern doing it, because it will be the same low wage agency staff who don't care about the job - in contrast, their guards, dispatchers and drivers are usually directly employed and decently paid, so do care about it.

The staff at Leeds are directly employed by Northern however, you can tell by what uniform they're wearing if it's the light blue then it's Carlisle agency staff.

Most of their others (all that were installed under Arriva if I remember correctly) are contractors working for Carlisle.

 

[scrapy]

They are instructed to check every single person's Railcard - including when a busy service arrives and 100s of passengers are trying to get through. The gates don't check Railcards so why do the staff?

Mainly the fact that there are a hell of a lot of people who travel with discounts they aren't entitled to. The fact that they are regularly finding people who are not paying the correct fare is surely justification for them doing it. It might be a minor inconvenience but I've never waited more than a few seconds, and if I had a Railcard, would have no problem showing it.

Gateline should be staffed by whomever the station is managed by. Similarly for dispatch staff, they should be employed by the station managing company. It's completely daft and means so much duplication and waste by having multiple TOCs doing the same job within a station. Yes there can be some benefits to it such as during industrial action some services may keep running but on the whole, what a waste of taxpayers money.

The current setup is due to DFT meddling and private operators squabbles over who should pay gate installation and staffing costs.