Manchester to London in 1990

[theorangeone]

According to JK Rowling, the Harry Potter series was first conceived on a delayed train from Manchester to London King's Cross in 1990.

I'm curious, did such services run in 1990, was it a one-off due to engineering work instead, or was this just a mistake that the average person just misses? If they did run, what route did they take? I'd have thought that the default London terminus for the casual Manchester to London traveller would be Euston as it is today.

 

[Polarbear]

Manchester to London trains in the 1990's would most definitely have arrived at Euston and not Kings Cross. Using the same routes as the present day, but a lot less frequent (generally hourly), with most trains going via Stoke. Only a few trains each day operated via Wilmslow & Crewe.

Generally, Euston has been the only terminus for Manchester services in BR days. There used to be services to St Pancras via the Peak Forest route up to the late 1960's when that route closed. After 1968, a residual service continued to operate to St Pancras via the Hope Valley route which petered out in the 1980's

Operation Rio in the mid 2000's was the only other occasion that trains from Manchester to London regularly went to another terminus.

 

[Ash Bridge]

According to JK Rowling, the Harry Potter series was first conceived on a delayed train from Manchester to London King's Cross in 1990.

I'm curious, did such services run in 1990, was it a one-off due to engineering work instead, or was this just a mistake that the average person just misses? If they did run, what route did they take? I'd have thought that the default London terminus for the casual Manchester to London traveller would be Euston as it is today.

I'm sure you're correct about Euston, the direct service to St Pancras ceased roughly during the mid to late 70s (briefly resurrected in 2004 by Midland Mainline) although I'm sure there was a IC CrossCountry service to Paddington operating around that time, was never aware of anything to Kings Cross though

 

[Iskra]

Could it have been a sleeper service she was on? When did Manchester lose its sleeper service?

...Although my hunch is that she is either mistaken or was travelling from Manchester to Kings Cross via a 3rd place that would explain arriving into Kings Cross.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Could it have been a sleeper service she was on? When did Manchester lose its sleeper service?

...Although my hunch is that she is either mistaken or was travelling from Manchester to Kings Cross via a 3rd place that would explain arriving into Kings Cross.

Sleepers at that time used to arrive/depart Euston. I was a frequent user - great when working during the week in London. Spend all weekend in Manchester and last train out, waking up in town for a week of work.

 

[yorksrob]

I believe JK Rowling is an Edinburgh resident, so over time she may have confused that particular journey with her more usual destination at the Cross.

Alternatively she may have just felt that a classical Victorian train shed would have had more resonance in a fictional story about wizards then BR's functional 1960's construct at Euston.

Incidentally, I understand that at the time, BR used to occasionally divert some WCML services under the old train shed at St Pancras, so had Ms Rowling been on one of these, platform 9 3/4 (I think it is) might have been there.

 

[theorangeone]

Thanks for the responses.

I suppose when you're talking of a train from Manchester to King's Cross it's better to link it with the Harry Potter storyline than to be perfectly accurate (and I'm also thinking it's highly likely that she doesn't remember the day in question because it's fairly impossible to mistake a memory of Euston for King's Cross for anyone with a passing familiarity of both).

I was also wondering (asking forum members who were around in 1990) - maybe there was a WCML blockade somewhere meaning trains were diverted into King's Cross?

 

[30907]

Incidentally, I understand that at the time, BR used to occasionally divert some WCML services under the old train shed at St Pancras, so had Ms Rowling been on one of these, platform 9 3/4 (I think it is) might have been there.

St Pancras never had that many platforms pre Eurostar.

I'm sure my children (as experts on such matters) informed me that she had the "Watford" platforms at Euston rather than Kings Cross Suburban in mind.

 

[Cowley]

I believe JK Rowling is an Edinburgh resident, so over time she may have confused that particular journey with her more usual destination at the Cross.

Alternatively she may have just felt that a classical Victorian train shed would have had more resonance in a fictional story about wizards then BR's functional 1960's construct at Euston.

Incidentally, I understand that at the time, BR used to occasionally divert some WCML services under the old train shed at St Pancras, so had Ms Rowling been on one of these, platform 9 3/4 (I think it is) might have been there.

I quite like the thought of tourists pretending to crash into a concrete wall in Euston I must say

 

[yorksrob]

St Pancras never had that many platforms pre Eurostar.

I'm sure my children (as experts on such matters) informed me that she had the "Watford" platforms at Euston rather than Kings Cross Suburban in mind.

Indeed. St Pancras had six platforms when I used it in the 90's and noughties, and they were underused since Thameslink had taken away the suburban traffic.

That said, I have seen pictures of WCML electric locos and carriages sitting in St P having been hauled in by a diesel.

 

[yorksrob]

I quite like the thought of tourists pretending to crash into a concrete wall in Euston I must say

Indeed. I'm sure there are many employees across the country who already re-enact such an event every day

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to JK Rowling, the Harry Potter series was first conceived on a delayed train from Manchester to London King's Cross in 1990.

I'm curious, did such services run in 1990, was it a one-off due to engineering work instead, or was this just a mistake that the average person just misses? If they did run, what route did they take? I'd have thought that the default London terminus for the casual Manchester to London traveller would be Euston as it is today.

No, I believe it's been said that JK Rowling actually meant Euston, not Kings Cross. Which in a way makes more sense - 9 3/4 would be between bays 9 and 10.

 

[Bletchleyite]

St Pancras never had that many platforms pre Eurostar.

I'm sure my children (as experts on such matters) informed me that she had the "Watford" platforms at Euston rather than Kings Cross Suburban in mind.

Yes, I believe this is correct - 9 3/4 was intended to be the middle of the two bays in the Euston suburban platforms.

 

[Taunton]

I can recall the original "9 3/4" sign at pre-rebuild Kings Cross, which I used to take visitors to London to photograph, it was a bit hidden and you had to know it was there.

In Kings Cross a couple of weeks ago I was surprised to find the new location for it now had an official photographer, queue barriers, and a large group waiting their turn.

Trains to the "wrong" London terminus have a long tradition in fiction, Railway World magazine many years ago managed a full article, closely researched, of all the Sherlock Holmes stories that used what looked like an error for their departure point. There are a large number. In fact, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle appeared to be decidedly knowledgeable about railways, he might well have been an early enthusiast, and he wrote some specific railway stories, such as "The Lost Special", which also got various existing stations just slightly wrong. I suspect he knew exactly what he was doing.

Regarding Harry Potter, anyone who would say a Hall was ever painted bright red would definitely fail the "spotter test" at the end of Taunton platform in the 1960s ...

 

[theorangeone]

Just to clarify - this isn't about the fictional express to Scotland, this is about a real service that apparently ran...

 

[Railops]

She's deluded as she never went from Manchester to kings Cross direct.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Confirmation she was talking about Euston:

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryMagazine/DestinationsUK/Harry-Potter-Platform-9-Three-Quarters/

I wrote Platform 9 3/4 when I was living in Manchester, and I wrongly visualised the platforms, and I was actually thinking of Euston, so anyone who's actually been to the real platforms 9 and 10 in King's Cross will realise they don't bear a great resemblance to the platforms 9 and 10 as described in the book. So that's just me coming clean, there...

 

[Bevan Price]

The pre-1923 GNR ran some services between Manchester (London Road, as it was then) and Kings Cross via Sheffield Victoria & Retford. I think these stopped in the LNER era. There were also services to Marylebone via Woodhead & the GCR London Extension until the late 1950s.

St. Pancras, Paddington & Kensington Olympia have all been used at various times for WCML services diverted due to engineering work.

 

[ag51ruk]

Indeed. St Pancras had six platforms when I used it in the 90's and noughties, and they were underused since Thameslink had taken away the suburban traffic.

That said, I have seen pictures of WCML electric locos and carriages sitting in St P having been hauled in by a diesel.

The old Solari board at St Pancras in the 80s and early 90s certainly had all of the West Coast stations available on it - I used to watch them flash past, although I don't recall ever seeing WCML trains actually use it