Manchester to Tokyo in November.

[D6130]

My wife is planning to fly to Japan for the first time this November, to visit her Japanese pen friend.

It will be her first long-haul flight and first foray outside of Europe. As she will be travelling alone, she would rather not have to negotiate the nightmare that is Heathrow, which rules out direct polar flights from the UK....and they are also very expensive.

She has so far investigated flights from Manchester via Dubai (Emirates) and via Helsinki (Finnair). I believe that there are also flights to Tokyo from Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, Schipol, and no doubt several other European airports.

Could anybody here recommend a particular route or transfer airport and/or share their experiences of flight comfort/quality/punctuality/ease of transfer, or recommend any particular fare deals?

She will probably fly Economy, but may select a higher class of travel, if a good deal is available. Paging

@AlterEgo ....but anyone else's experiences or recommendations are equally-welcome.

 

[Royston Vasey]

HEL is a very nice, easy airport to navigate and connect at. There is a transit security but it's fast and efficient. Finnair's main long haul business model is as a hub and spoke on the "short" route to Asia although not so short now Russian airspace is out of action!

What I have done before is to connect at Helsinki onto Japan Airlines, and vice versa. They have their foibles, but an excellent offering across the classes, and critically for me, in economy they fit 8 abreast on 787 and 9 abreast on 777. Almost no other carrier has opted to do this and BA have almost eradicated/"densified" all their 3-3-3 777s now.

 

[AlterEgo]

Out of interest, what is it about Heathrow that puts her off? Arriving on a domestic means a quick connection in T5, no need for additional security screening. I’ve just done that myself this morning!

 

[jfollows]

I went Finnair to Hong Kong last summer, business class, and I plan to use them again next summer to Osaka. Very simple change at Helskinki although next year I will stay there for a day or two. Nice flights, and by leaving Manchester on a Saturday afternoon it was also quiet and hassle-free.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I found a great deal in 2019 with Singapore Airlines on the MAN-SIN-TOK route. Singapore, though large, is a very easy airport to navigate (and it has a butterfly house and cactus garden).

Singapore use the A350 on the first part of the route which is a great plane. If i can i always look to transit through Singapore for comfort and experience reasons.

Singapore is also worth a visit itself and isnt hard to get into and have a wander (though is warm)

 

[Royston Vasey]

Out of interest, what is it about Heathrow that puts her off? Arriving on a domestic means a quick connection in T5, no need for additional security screening. I’ve just done that myself this morning!

I was about to say that but they I remembered two things:

- Coming home again there is the transit security and in my experience connecting to Newcastle, it's very slow, crowded and inefficient
- The very high likelihood of BA5 and BA7 departing from satellite B or C. Personally I use the walkway but 99.5% of people will use the transit. It's a ballache either way. On rare occasions it may be A10, i.e. a bus gate, which is even worse!

 

[D6130]

Out of interest, what is it about Heathrow that puts her off? Arriving on a domestic means a quick connection in T5, no need for additional security screening. I’ve just done that myself this morning!

If flying from Heathrow, she would travel by train to Kings Cross and then take the Picadilly line from there to LHR.

 

[AlterEgo]

If flying from Heathrow, she would travel by train to Kings Cross and then take the Picadilly line from there to LHR.

Why would she not connect from Manchester?

HEL is a very nice, easy airport to navigate and connect at. There is a transit security but it's fast and efficient. Finnair's main long haul business model is as a hub and spoke on the "short" route to Asia although not so short now Russian airspace is out of action!

What I have done before is to connect at Helsinki onto Japan Airlines, and vice versa. They have their foibles, but an excellent offering across the classes, and critically for me, in economy they fit 8 abreast on 787 and 9 abreast on 777. Almost no other carrier has opted to do this and BA have almost eradicated/"densified" all their 3-3-3 777s now.

I can commend this advice. Helsinki is probably the nicest and most convenient connection in Europe for this route. Lovely airport and both JAL and Finnair are excellent at what they do.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Oh, on no account would I recommend she transfer at Charles De Gaulle. It is absolutely dreadful, complex and huge. Amsterdam isn't much better.

One other factor is the arrival airport. BA now only fly to Haneda, which is much closer to Tokyo city than Narita, but Finnair Emirates Qatar Cathay and others fly to both.

There are morning, afternoon and very late night flights to the Middle East/Europe and I prefer the midnight-ish flights. You get a full day in Tokyo, dine in the city, the airport or if you're lucky enough, the lounge, and then sleep as much as possible on the flight (easily 8 hours) and arrive in the morning relatively fresh!

I've chosen NRT or HND purely on available flight times to HEL, DOH, HKG or LHR.

Haneda is much closer to Tokyo but you need to get a monorail and then Keikyu line train to the city, two separate tickets. Narita is 50 minutes by Narita Express train to/from Tokyo Station, but it's a much quieter airport than Haneda since COVID, and the Express is direct from Tokyo station or Chiba taking 50 minutes and costing about £13.50 each way (take that Heathrow Express) It's also a very cool train

 

[signed]

On rare occasions it may be A10, i.e. a bus gate, which is even worse!

Any air-fan would disagree, seeing a 777/787/A350 from a trarmac bus is great

Oh, on no account would I recommend she transfer at Charles De Gaulle. It is absolutely dreadful, complex and huge

+1, do not transfer at CDG unless you really have to. Even though Air France seems to be quite good nowadays.

Else, you can always transfer in Frankfurt for the ANA flights to Haneda.

 

[D6130]

Why would she not connect from Manchester?

I can commend this advice. Helsinki is probably the nicest and most convenient connection in Europe for this route. Lovely airport and both JAL and Finnair are excellent at what they do.

I can commend this advice. Helsinki is probably the nicest and most convenient connection in Europe for this route. Lovely airport and both JAL and Finnair are excellent at what they do.

Many thanks for that. A good recommendation.

She has free safeguarded staff dependent rail travel.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Any air-fan would disagree, seeing a 777/787/A350 from a trarmac bus is great


+1, do not transfer at CDG unless you really have to. Even though Air France seems to be quite good nowadays.

Else, you can always transfer in Frankfurt for the ANA flights to Haneda.

I was thinking for the OP's wife, it's one more hassle! I hate sweaty transit buses but the views can be good! At LAX and ORD, I've taken the terminal transfer bus from a "gate" in one terminal to a "gate" in another. It's basically a minibus that uses the same taxiways as the ground vehicles, parallel with the taxiways for the air vehicles! Racing A350s and 777s is a thrill!

 

[D6130]

Many thanks for all your replies. She's decided on the Manchester-Helsinki-Tokyo Haneda option. (Getting close-up and personal with big metal birds has no appeal for her....sorry guys!)

 

[AlastairFraser]

Why would she not connect from Manchester?

MAN T3 is a ballache, and BA don't always arrange a connection to be held - even with other Oneworld airlines.

A friend was flying MAN-LHR-DFW, he was there just in time (landing delays), but a member of Heathrow staff misdirected him and American denied him boarding for reaching the gate too late.

He got moved onto one hours later and some decent compo for the delay, but the experience was stressful. I recommended that he connects through Dublin next time.

 

[Tester]

Haneda is much closer to Tokyo but you need to get a monorail and then Keikyu line train to the city, two separate tickets. Narita is 50 minutes by Narita Express train to/from Tokyo Station, but it's a much quieter airport than Haneda since COVID, and the Express is direct from Tokyo station or Chiba taking 50 minutes and costing about £13.50 each way (take that Heathrow Express) It's also a very cool train

This is not correct.

From Haneda you can either take the monorail to connect with JR, or take Keikyu direct from the airport, with most Keikyu trains running through the city. In either case it is one ticket.

Which is better will depend on final destination, but unless that destination is well to the east of the city, Haneda will win on cost, time and frequency.

 

[jfollows]

This is not correct.

From Haneda you can either take the monorail to connect with JR, or take Keikyu direct from the airport, with most Keikyu trains running through the city. In either case it is one ticket.

Which is better will depend on final destination, but unless that destination is well to the east of the city, Haneda will win on cost, time and frequency.

Indeed.
I used the Keikyu line from Oshiage/Skytree to Haneda last year. No monorail. 40 minutes.

 

[Tetchytyke]

MAN T3 is a ballache, and BA don't always arrange a connection to be held - even with other Oneworld airlines.

I think the question was why wouldn’t she fly from Manchester to Heathrow rather than get the train.

BA don’t hold connections- of course they don’t- but on a through ticket the rebooking is their problem not yours. If Avanti screw up and you miss your flight at Heathrow then the rebooking problem is yours not theirs.

It’s why I’ll often happily pay the extra £50 or so (and it’s often less than that) book through tickets from wherever on BA to/from the Isle of Man. When something goes wrong with a connection it’s on their dime not mine.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I prefer LHR over CDG any day. I really do not like DeGaulle.

My experience with this route was SAS on an A340 via Copenhagen. NRT-CPH-MAN. When I last did it, the plane spent most of its time over Russian airspace.

 

[Royston Vasey]

This is not correct.

From Haneda you can either take the monorail to connect with JR, or take Keikyu direct from the airport, with most Keikyu trains running through the city. In either case it is one ticket.

Which is better will depend on final destination, but unless that destination is well to the east of the city, Haneda will win on cost, time and frequency.

Well that'll get you to Shinagawa, not really Tokyo, where you have to change. I mean, its Tokyo, you're going to have to change for practically anywhere you actually want to go.

 

[Tester]

Well that'll get you to Shinagawa, not really Tokyo, where you have to change. I mean, its Tokyo, you're going to have to change for practically anywhere you actually want to go.

This is not correct either. It is not necessary to change at Shinagawa to get from Haneda to central Tokyo.

Of course if your final destination is on a different line you will need to change lines, just as if your London destination from Heathrow is not on the Piccadilly or Elizabeth lines.

However you slice it, it's easier from Haneda than Narita.

 

[sprunt]

I went from Manchester to Tokyo via Doha on Qatar last month, and that seemed as good a way as any other. Long-haul flights in economy are never fun (I assume the other classes are more fun, but I couldn't tell you) but this seemed as good as it gets - the staff were helpful, the food was tolerable, the leg room was better than on Ryanair. Doha airport is a spectacle too, with a little forest bit and a train you can go for a ride on.

 

[Bungle965]

Looking at potentially making the same trip next year, most likely through BA holidays so a useful thread to follow.
Anyone have any experience of JAL Business and whether it is worth the upgrade compared to Premium, I don't think the connection from Manchester gives long enough to go and enjoy the lounge offerings in Heathrow.

 

[jfollows]

Looking at potentially making the same trip next year, most likely through BA holidays so a useful thread to follow.
Anyone have any experience of JAL Business and whether it is worth the upgrade compared to Premium, I don't think the connection from Manchester gives long enough to go and enjoy the lounge offerings in Heathrow.

I went JAL business class Tokyo Haneda - Los Angeles last summer, it was nice, choice of Japanese or other menu beforehand I think. Haneda and its lounge very nice compared to most other airports too. Certainly on a par with Finnair and both better than BA which I used Los Angeles-London.
Worth the upgrade in my opinion. However I didn’t buy it as a one-off upgrade myself.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Looking at potentially making the same trip next year, most likely through BA holidays so a useful thread to follow.
Anyone have any experience of JAL Business and whether it is worth the upgrade compared to Premium, I don't think the connection from Manchester gives long enough to go and enjoy the lounge offerings in Heathrow.

Great upgrade but may be expensive. You can engineer a longer connection but it'd be T5 to T3 airside bus which isn't the best. Flying business through T3 gives the choice of Cathay Qantas BA and American Airlines lounges, I would suggest in that order.

JAL Premium Economy does give you lounge access at T3, but only in the BA lounge. In Business you'd have access to them all under Oneworld rules. It's still lounge access on a premium economy ticket which is worth considering. You also get champagne on board, good seating. JAL PE is a great product really and comfortable enough to sleep well. Whether it's worth the upgrade depends on the price!

 

[Bungle965]

Great upgrade but may be expensive. You can engineer a longer connection but it'd be T5 to T3 airside bus which isn't the best. Flying business through T3 gives the choice of Cathay Qantas BA and American Airlines lounges, I would suggest in that order.

JAL Premium Economy does give you lounge access at T3, but only in the BA lounge. In Business you'd have access to them all under Oneworld rules. It's still lounge access on a premium economy ticket which is worth considering. You also get champagne on board, good seating. JAL PE is a great product really and comfortable enough to sleep well. Whether it's worth the upgrade depends on the price!

Really useful post, thanks

 

[Watershed]

Looking at potentially making the same trip next year, most likely through BA holidays so a useful thread to follow.
Anyone have any experience of JAL Business and whether it is worth the upgrade compared to Premium, I don't think the connection from Manchester gives long enough to go and enjoy the lounge offerings in Heathrow.

Cash fares to Japan are generally quite a bit dearer than booking with points (BA and several other airlines use use Avios). You don't necessarily need to fly much (or at all) to earn Avios - you can also get them via credit cards (especially sign-up offers), hotels/car hire, making online purchases through the BA Shopping portal (it's similar to Topcashback/Quidco), or ultimately just by buying them through various means.

I tend to value an Avios at 1p (it's possible to acquire them for less though); based on that you are looking at something in the region of £2.5k for an Avios booking in business class. It can be even less with various vouchers that you can earn.

Business class is going to be a much more comfortable experience than premium economy. Premium economy is really "economy plus", i.e. a bit more legroom and seat width and slightly nicer food/drink - it's still fundamentally a seat, so you are never going to be able to sleep very well. By contrast business class will give you a lie-flat bed so it's possible to get some decent sleep and privacy. The food and drink is also quite a bit better.

JAL is excellent in business, but tends to charge accordingly higher prices. You'd get access to all 4 of the Oneworld lounges at LHR T3 when flying with JAL; the Cathay Pacific and Qantas lounges are particularly good. The lounge selection at Haneda isn't bad either - there's also a Cathay Pacific lounge there.

You'll have to connect between T5 and T3 - and reclear security - if flying down from MAN, so I would suggest taking an earlier-than-necessary flight if you want to have enough time to enjoy the lounge.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Too late if you have booked already, but I found Zurich and Munich were good transit points for long haul, starting from Manchester.
They are both relatively simple, clean, well-signposted airports which are easy to navigate for connections.
Swiss (also Austrian and Brussels) are part of the Lufthansa group so you get the same fares on either site, and can mix flights across the LH group.
I used to prefer transit at Schiphol with KLM but it has deteriorated since being reconfigured, and is very congested.

Some airlines still fly over Russia, but most western airlines avoid Russian airspace via Romania, the Black Sea, Baku, Kazakhstan and China.
Finnair via Helsinki is now the "long way round".

 

[AlastairFraser]

I think the question was why wouldn’t she fly from Manchester to Heathrow rather than get the train.

BA don’t hold connections- of course they don’t- but on a through ticket the rebooking is their problem not yours. If Avanti screw up and you miss your flight at Heathrow then the rebooking problem is yours not theirs.

It’s why I’ll often happily pay the extra £50 or so (and it’s often less than that) book through tickets from wherever on BA to/from the Isle of Man. When something goes wrong with a connection it’s on their dime not mine.

Well, to specifically answer that question - Manchester T3 is an unpredictable mess, and it's not worth the stress that you have quite a high likelihood of missing the connection (in conjuction with Heathrow's documented problems).
Avanti are not perfect, sure, but better than most of me and my friends' Manchester Airport experiences!