Manchester 'tube'

[Philip]

Just a thought with regards all of the rail problems in Manchester right now, has the digging of an underground network throughout Greater Manchester ever been considered and if not, would it be possible? A self contained system like in London, rather than the Liverpool style I should say.

It would solve many problems and still probably cost a lot less than HS2/3!

 

[JonathanH]

Just a thought with regards all of the rail problems in Manchester right now, has the digging of an underground network throughout Greater Manchester ever been considered and if not, would it be possible? A self contained system like in London, rather than the Liverpool style I should say.

It would solve many problems and still probably cost a lot less than HS2/3!

Yes - considered - didn't happen
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picc-Vic_tunnel

It has got Metrolink which doesn't go underground is self contained and is where any future expansion will be focussed.

There will not be an underground network in Manchester.

 

[cactustwirly]

Just a thought with regards all of the rail problems in Manchester right now, has the digging of an underground network throughout Greater Manchester ever been considered and if not, would it be possible? A self contained system like in London, rather than the Liverpool style I should say.

It would solve many problems and still probably cost a lot less than HS2/3!

I think a heavy rail suburban tunnel under the Castlefield corridor would be good, like a Manchester S-bahn, taking the local services, leaving the surface route for longer distance TPE routes.

 

[Philip]

Yes - considered - didn't happen
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picc-Vic_tunnel

It has got Metrolink which doesn't go underground is self contained and is where any future expansion will be focussed.

There will not be an underground network in Manchester.

The Metrolink isn't comparable with the efficiency and convenience of a proper underground system though and only seems to serve popular destinations within the area, rather than a service for all as in the London Underground.

The Picc-Vic idea was at a time of a crumbling economy, now it seems money grows on trees for new transport infrastructure (like HS2!), so not inconceivable that the idea might be revisited at some point.

 

[PartyOperator]

Trams can be pretty efficient. Not intensive metro levels certainly, but a 400-person tram every three minutes is quite feasible and easily beats the passenger capacity of most mixed-use heavy railways. It's also easier to extend the network across the city than something requiring dedicated tunnels and fully-separated alignments.

 

[Ianno87]

The Metrolink isn't comparable with the efficiency and convenience of a proper underground system though and only seems to serve popular destinations within the area, rather than a service for all as in the London Underground.

Whuh? Have you seen the number of tentacles the Metrolink network map has gained over the last decade. It and the Rail Network together cover the county pretty comprehensively.

The least well-covered area is probably the Manchester equivalent to the Zone 2 sort of area, the immediate ring around the city centre (Rusholme, Broughton, Longsight, Cheetham Hill etc)

 

[Philip]

Whuh? Have you seen the number of tentacles the Metrolink network map has gained over the last decade. It and the Rail Network together cover the county pretty comprehensively.

The least well-covered area is probably the Manchester equivalent to the Zone 2 sort of area, the immediate ring around the city centre (Rusholme, Broughton, Longsight, Cheetham Hill etc)

It doesn't touch Bolton and Wigan, nor the corridors towards them.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't think the Picc-Vic proposal was ever intended to be a standalone Subway system, but more akin to the low-level lines through Glasgow or a German-style S-Bahn.

Had some late-Victorian era business bods thought of it around the turn of the century, Manchester could well have gained a Subway system (as could Birmingham) but if it wasn't going to happen then it certainly wouldn't ever have happened later than that.

 

[HSTEd]

Whuh? Have you seen the number of tentacles the Metrolink network map has gained over the last decade. It and the Rail Network together cover the county pretty comprehensively.

It has wide coverage range, but it doesn't cover everything.

For example, at my home near Platt Fields, the painfully slow bus on the Oxford Road corridor is still the only option.

 

[Journeyman]

Picc-Vic had two main aims to it - first of all, linking Piccadilly and Victoria stations by rail, and secondly updating and linking together various suburban routes that were quite run down at the time, so it had elements of Thameslink and Merseyrail about it. It was planned to introduce a new class of EMU based on the production PEP classes for it all, and I believe Class 316 was allocated for it, hence the gap in class numbering following the scheme's cancellation.

 

[Ianno87]

Picc-Vic had two main aims to it - first of all, linking Piccadilly and Victoria stations by rail, and secondly updating and linking together various suburban routes that were quite run down at the time, so it had elements of Thameslink and Merseyrail about it. It was planned to introduce a new class of EMU based on the production PEP classes for it all, and I believe Class 316 was allocated for it, hence the gap in class numbering following the scheme's cancellation.

Planned routes were:
North End
-Bury (Bury Interchange being a hangover of the plan)
-Bolton via Radcliffe
-As a later phase, Oldham/Rochdale

South End
-Hazel Grove (the electrification there also being a hangover of the plan)
-Alderley Edge via Stockport
-Wilmslow via Styal
-Manchester Airport

 

[Journeyman]

Planned routes were:
North End
-Bury (Bury Interchange being a hangover of the plan)
-Bolton via Radcliffe
-As a later phase, Oldham/Rochdale

South End
-Hazel Grove (the electrification there also being a hangover of the plan)
-Alderley Edge via Stockport
-Wilmslow via Styal
-Manchester Airport

I think if it had happened, it would have left Manchester with a very good transport system that could have been gradually expanded, but clearly circumstances conspired against it happening, and something a bit more modest - at least initially - was needed.

When you think about it, Metrolink was visionary stuff when first proposed, and from modest beginnings it's gone on to become a comprehensive and very effective network. If Manchester were ever to need underground railways in the future, it could be done by building tunnel sections for Metrolink, as several German tram systems have done.

For those interested, the bus museum in Manchester contains a Picc-Vicc display and also the original T68 tram mockup, so it covers the history of these schemes pretty well. Worth a visit if you're in the area.