Manchester Victoria or Manchester Piccadilly

[BeijingDave]

Victoria is under-rated as a location in town. When I lived in Manchester, it was a forgotten, dark little place for trains to Oldham and Rochdale/.

Manchester's centre of gravity moved somewhat towards Victoria with the Selfridges, Printworks etc developments ~2000, but then moved back towards Piccadilly as the NQ and Ancoats exploded, culturally. Overall, the city has grown in every direction and a lot overall, and jobs are dotted all over - plus the western edges of Castlefied towards Cornbrook, and of course, the Quays.

In short, they all matter and play a bigger role as the city has grown. It really depends on where you're coming in from. I always think the Wales services could be consolidated out of Victoria (mainly to make a hub for Warrington and Chester fasts, along with Chat Moss) - and Piccadilly is West Midlands and South West/East. They mostly are delineated in a clear enough way.

When I was a kid I loved Victoria.

However, from a Warrington/Chester perspective, it makes more sense to have Piccadilly as a concentrated hub. Where's the benefit to a Warringtonian in sending the Warrington/Chester trains to terminate at Victoria? I expect people from that area travel to Stockport (for work, and vice versa), Sheffield (for university), Manchester Airport much more than they want connections to Burnley, Rochdale, Todmorden and Wigan Wallgate (all essentially useless except for niche few).

 

[Purple Orange]

Bit of a tangent but still railway related: the Northgate Arena in Chester (on the site of Chester Northgate Station).

The rest of Oxford Road would be adequate with a lick of paint etc if passenger numbers were lower. It needs 4 through platforms that can be used for regular service. Platform 1 cannot be used regularly because it has no lift and because of various engineering issues it would cost a small fortune to build one. That means Oxford Road is effectively 2+1+1. Pre covid the platforms were regularly full and there is one coffee shop with a very small waiting area. Its not for purpose.

A lift at the very least needs to be installed at P1. As it stands, Oxford Road station is really a glorified metro station - same with Victoria. Its sole purpose should be about quick and easy access ti the south side of the city centre. Deansgate for the west side, Salford Central for the North west side and Victoria for the north east side.

 

[mike57]

When I was a kid I loved Victoria.

However, from a Warrington/Chester perspective, it makes more sense to have Piccadilly as a concentrated hub. Where's the benefit to a Warringtonian in sending the Warrington/Chester trains to terminate at Victoria? I expect people from that area travel to Stockport (for work, and vice versa), Sheffield (for university), Manchester Airport much more than they want connections to Burnley, Rochdale, Todmorden and Wigan Wallgate (all essentially useless except for niche few).

I think this is the fundemental problem with the Victoria - Piccadilly usage. When TPE north routed their services through Vic if your service is Liverpool bound, then you have to get to Pic for a lot of connections, and this adds typically 30 mins on to the journey. The problem is in terms of connections you didnt really gain anything, and lost a lot, anything to the south of Manchester or on the CLC line suddenly became a right pain. I had a friend who commuted Stalybridge - Birchwood daily, simple no change journey became 2 changes and much longer post 2018, needless to say he started using the car. Really the aim must be to develop Pic and Castlefield to the point where everything other than local services call at or terminate in Pic, either that or a quick efficent transfer thats included in the ticket, e.g. Pic - Vic tunnel. The Ordsal chord has not delivered because the associated infrastructure cant support the level of service required. I suspect we will be living with the problem for some years as I dont see the funding being available to sort it out properly

 

[Chester1]

A lift at the very least needs to be installed at P1. As it stands, Oxford Road station is really a glorified metro station - same with Victoria. Its sole purpose should be about quick and easy access ti the south side of the city centre. Deansgate for the west side, Salford Central for the North west side and Victoria for the north east side.

I can't remember the details but in previous threads other members have explained why its not a straightforward job to add a lift. The station is designed to be lightweight and adding a lift would require significant engineering works. Platform 1 is a short platform too. Platforms 1-3 need to be remodelled at the same time, with the lift, platform extensions and new footbridge. Limited work can be done around the entrance, buildings next to it and platforms 4-5 without a rebuild of the station. I think that is the best we can hope for in next few years.

 

[Purple Orange]

I can't remember the details but in previous threads other members have explained why its not a straightforward job to add a lift. The station is designed to be lightweight and adding a lift would require significant engineering works. Platform 1 is a short platform too. Platforms 1-3 need to be remodelled at the same time, with the lift, platform extensions and new footbridge. Limited work can be done around the entrance, buildings next to it and platforms 4-5 without a rebuild of the station. I think that is the best we can hope for in next few years.

There really isn’t any valid excuse for having inaccessible platforms at busy city centre railway stations though.

 

[Chester1]

There really isn’t any valid excuse for having inaccessible platforms at busy city centre railway stations though.

They are only used by a handful of services. I agree it needs resolving but until there is an agreed plan for the station NR aren't going to spend millions on installing a lift that could become redundant quickly. Even with a lift on platform 1 Oxford Road would not have adequate facilities and space.

 

[jfollows]

They are only used by a handful of services. I agree it needs resolving but until there is an agreed plan for the station NR aren't going to spend millions on installing a lift that could become redundant quickly. Even with a lift on platform 1 Oxford Road would not have adequate facilities and space.

Agreed - platform 1 at Oxford Road just about worked for the couple of Buxton line terminators which used it in the 1970s, especially in the evenings when they could sit in the platform to enable passengers to get on and wait for departure sat on the train rather than having to wait for a through service on a crowded small platform.

Otherwise I used it a few years ago on an Airport-Blackpool morning service which was overtaken there; I remained on the train because it was stopping at Deansgate which was my preferred destination that day, less far for me to walk to my dentist. But I didn't get off or on.