Marlow to Cambridge

[MarlowDonkey]

I am checking options for a trip from Marlow to Cambridge on Sunday 25th May, returning on Saturday 31st May.

The Forum's ticket site comes up with the straightforward if slow route of GWR Marlow to Maidenhead, Elizabeth Maidenhead to Liverpool Street and Greater Anglia Liverpool Street to Cambridge. This it prices as an Off Peak Return at £ 33.45 (Marlow to Cambridge) with Senior Railcard. The restriction code is 4J, any permitted route with no time restrictions on Saturday or Sunday

It should also be posiible to travel via the ECML route, either directly from Kings Cross or changing to Thameslink at Farringdon.

Attempts to force this route can give itineraries but at a considerably higher price even with using obscure splits.

So two questions.

(1) is the Off Peak Return valid via the Kings Cross route?
(2) If it is, why doesn't the journey planner show it?


The Liverpool Street route might be the quickest on a Sunday because of the need on both routes to use the slow Elizabeth trains from Maidenhead, but on a Saturday the fast 45 minute service to Kings Cross and the semi fast Paddington to Maidenhead GWR should surely be options.

 

[Vexed]

(1) is the Off Peak Return valid via the Kings Cross route?

Yes

Something's up here with through ticket availability involving the Thameslink core that I noticed this morning when trying to book a St Albans - Southampton Airport Parkway return which wasn't offered, only splits more expensive than the through return. I thought it was possibly due to a bank holiday but evidently not as I'm seeing the same thing on your dates as well - no through tickets available when changing onto Thameslink.

Here's another example of no through tickets being offered when a £20.80 Sunday Out should be sold, cheaper than every split.

I will mention @Adam Williams here as I did email TrainSplit support earlier but being a bank holiday I guess it hasn't been seen.

 

[Adam Williams]

I had a brief look at this, but I'm sorry to say it's not really my neck of the woods which doesn't help with getting a mental model of it all. No Thameslink core up in Warwickshire @MrJeeves / @OscarH may have a better idea given they actually use this TOC; but it is a BH weekend and nobody technical is working it.

Thinking out loud in the general case: Sometimes if trains go via a diversionary route (is there any relevant engineering work this bank holiday weekend or on the dates specified?) and there's not a proper easement put in the ENRG, it can mean that a route is not considered permitted that should be.

---

Hmm, the diagnostics reference this negative easement. I'm not entirely sure why this would be relevant to this journey.

 

[Vexed]

but it is a BH weekend and nobody technical is working it.

Totally understandable, being able to have any contact on here at all is much better than response times for most things I run into! Seems to be a thing on TL origins/destinations north of London to SWR land every day of the week as far as I can see, even a random Tuesday in June. Then the OP's Marlow issue appears to be only some weekends. I'm glad I don't have to figure this one out . I have a really bad feeling I'm making a fuss over nothing here and it's user error...

Thameslink's website does sell through fares for all of these, and so does Uber who I booked the ticket I needed today through in the end.

 

[OscarH]

No Thameslink core up in Warwickshire @MrJeeves / @OscarH may have a better idea given they actually use this TOC;

Polite of you to give that as the reason, rather than that we're just routeing weirdos :P

 

[Adam Williams]

I have a really bad feeling I'm making a fuss over nothing here and it's user error...

Nah, there's definitely something odd going on, I can see that much

Polite of you to give that as the reason, rather than that we're just routeing weirdos :P

Your words, not mine!

 

[MrJeeves]

Polite of you to give that as the reason, rather than that we're just routeing weirdos :P

How rude! Me? Never!

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Nah, there's definitely something odd going on, I can see that much

I am checking options for a trip from Marlow to Cambridge on Sunday 25th May, returning on Saturday 31st May.

The Forum's ticket site comes up with the straightforward if slow route of GWR Marlow to Maidenhead, Elizabeth Maidenhead to Liverpool Street and Greater Anglia Liverpool Street to Cambridge. This it prices as an Off Peak Return at £ 33.45 (Marlow to Cambridge) with Senior Railcard. The restriction code is 4J, any permitted route with no time restrictions on Saturday or Sunday

It should also be posiible to travel via the ECML route, either directly from Kings Cross or changing to Thameslink at Farringdon.

Attempts to force this route can give itineraries but at a considerably higher price even with using obscure splits.

So two questions.

(1) is the Off Peak Return valid via the Kings Cross route?
(2) If it is, why doesn't the journey planner show it?


The Liverpool Street route might be the quickest on a Sunday because of the need on both routes to use the slow Elizabeth trains from Maidenhead, but on a Saturday the fast 45 minute service to Kings Cross and the semi fast Paddington to Maidenhead GWR should surely be options.

I took this a little further.

Taking the "after 14.00" departure as an example on May 31st, the timings on the Liverpool Street route are as follows:-

14.03 Cambridge
15.15 arrive Liverpool Street
15.35 depart Liverpool Street (Liz)
16.26 arrive Maidenhead
16.34 depart Maidenhead
16.57 arrive Marlow

Checking for a one way Cambridge to Marlow gives the same journey but also

14.23 Cambridge
15.34 Farringdon
then Liz to Paddington
15.52 depart Paddington (GWR)
16.30 arrive Maidenhead
16.34 depart Maidenhead
16.57 arrive Marlow.

My experience of Maidenhead is that normally they wait for passengers to cross by the subway before sending the Branch train on its way.

So that's twenty minutes faster via Thameslink by virtue of using the GWR semi-fast to overtake the Liz to Maidenhead.

The bug would be that whilst searching as a return offers the Off Peak Marlow to Cambridge Return, it fails to find the faster route back.

 

[Paul Kelly]

That negative easement 703602 seems spurious; it looks like it applies to all journeys when the fare is routed ANY PERMITTED or dot? Maybe it is triggering an edge case or bug?

 

[Vexed]

Checking for a one way Cambridge to Marlow gives the same journey but also

14.23 Cambridge
15.34 Farringdon
then Liz to Paddington
15.52 depart Paddington (GWR)
16.30 arrive Maidenhead
16.34 depart Maidenhead
16.57 arrive Marlow.

I think you mean arrive at Paddington 15:52 and depart at 16:08. Otherwise that's a valid itinerary generated by FastJP. If I enable fares on FastJP it only shows single tickets for that itinerary while showing returns for via Liverpool Street ones.

 

[OscarH]

That negative easement 703602 seems spurious; it looks like it applies to all journeys when the fare is routed ANY PERMITTED or dot? Maybe it is triggering an edge case or bug?

Yes, it's definitely a broken easement, though in theory it's affect is a no-op barring any JP bugs. It isn't affecting all tickets on route 0/1000 though, so if it's the cause it's not blanket failing.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Otherwise that's a valid itinerary generated by FastJP. If I enable fares on FastJP it only shows single tickets for that itinerary while showing returns for via Liverpool Street ones.

That has to be wrong as the Marlow to Cambridge off peak return is "any permitted" and has no time restrictions at weekends.

 

[OscarH]

Yes, it's definitely a broken easement, though in theory it's affect is a no-op barring any JP bugs. It isn't affecting all tickets on route 0/1000 though, so if it's the cause it's not blanket failing.

The issues were caused by this easement - the missing fares should now be surfaced as expected