Mass Shooting in Las Vegas, Nevada

[61653 HTAFC]

This looks like the worst incident in recent U.S. history, with the death toll at 50 at the time of posting. I'm sure all members of this forum will be thinking of those killed/bereaved/injured in this pointlessly violent attack. Details here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

Partial extract from the article for those unable to access the link:

At least 50 people have been killed and another 200 have been wounded in a mass shooting at a Las Vegas concert.
A gunman, named as 64-year-old local resident Stephen Paddock, opened fire from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel towards an open-air music festival.
He was shot dead by officers in the hotel where a number of guns were found.
The attack is the worst mass shooting in recent US history.
Sheriff Joe Lombardo described the shooting as a "lone wolf" attack. He added that police were now confident they had located a woman, earlier named as Marilou Danley, who was suspected of travelling with the gunman before the attack.
Sheriff Lombardo said he was unable to give accurate details of dead and wounded, but confirmed two off-duty police officers were among those killed.

At this time, the attack is not thought to be linked to Islamist terrorism.

 

[Bromley boy]

Yes absolutely shocking, thoughts with the victims. I'm sure many of us on the forum have been to Las Vegas at some point.

Of course sadly this kind of mass shooting is by no means unusual in the US, this one is exceptional only due to the number of victims. The majority are not widely reported outside of the US.

If ever there was an advert for stronger gun control laws (and a reminder of why we have them in the UK) it is this kind of event but sadly there never seems to be any headway in this direction in the States.

 

[Darandio]

Indeed, thoughts and prayers to all concerned.

It does seem to be one of their own that has done it and no doubt lots of calls of 'how can this happen'. However, we are talking about a state that has very lenient gun controls that allow you to build up an arsenal and nobody will bat an eyelid.

I'm not sure they will ever learn.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I thought it best to keep my opinion out of the initial post, but I think ultimately that if Sandy Hook wasn't going to change anything, there's no way this shooting will. It's a sign of the times that my second thought upon hearing about this (after the horror) was "please don't let this be Islamist terrorism".

 

[DarloRich]

The Yanks will be asking how this happened. I will tell you: you let people buy assault weapons, equipment and truck loads of ammunition with little of no checking of their mental state or criminal history you cretinous simpletons.. Here is an idea. Stop allowing it.

They wont change anything with that small minded, tango coloured, excreta gibbon in the white house. This really annoys me. Why don't they bloody well do something about it?

 

[Bromley boy]

The Yanks will be asking how this happened. I will tell you: you let people buy assault weapons, equipment and truck loads of ammunition with little of no checking of their mental state or criminal history you cretinous simpletons.. Here is an idea. Stop allowing it.

They wont change anything with that small minded, tango coloured, excreta gibbon in the white house. This really annoys me. Why don't they bloody well do something about it?

I suspect the answer is too many votes come from those who believe a gun affords them "protection" to make tougher gun laws a political possibility. The irony of this is that I recall stats showing an owned gun is statistically more likely to kill your own child/family member than an intruder. However this kind of inconvenient fact is ignored through wilful ignorance and blind stupidity.

The wider gun lobby and its supporters such as Sarah Palin, the National Rifle Association etc. have blood on their hands whenever these kinds of events occur, in my view.

 

[DarloRich]

I suspect the answer is too many votes come from those who believe a gun affords them "protection", (even though I recall stats showing an owned gun is statistically more likely to kill your own child/family member than an intruder) to make tougher gun laws a political possibility.

The wider gun lobby and its supporters such as Sarah Palin, the National Rifle Association etc. have blood on their hands whenever these kinds of events occur, in my view.

I do, almost, buy that reason but me owning a pistol is of little use if a man is stood on the 30th floor of a tower block taking pot shots at people with a military grade automatic weapon.

I wrote my dissertation on gun control and, iirc, in Nevada you can buy as many assault weapons as you like and own as much ammunition as you like. You don't have to register any of your firearms and they can be traded privately circumventing the few background checks that the state insist on for new purchases.

It is madness.

 

[Darandio]

It is madness.

Indeed it is.

Has the first pro-gun crackpot appeared yet to suggest that it could have been avoided by arming all bellhops? If you consider that they have previously suggested students should be armed as a defence against mass shootings at schools, then surely they feel the humble hotel porter should carry one as well?

Insane.

 

[Bromley boy]

I do, almost, buy that reason but me owning a pistol is of little use if a man is stood on the 30th floor of a tower block taking pot shots at people with a military grade automatic weapon.

I wrote my dissertation on gun control and, iirc, in Nevada you can buy as many assault weapons as you like and own as much ammunition as you like. You don't have to register any of your firearms and they can be traded privately circumventing the few background checks that the state insist on for new purchases.

It is madness.

Even the protection reason you allude to above is an emotional one, rather than one rooted in reality, as it is comprehensively debased by most studies on the issue (as you will know better than me).

The below article is interesting and suggests taking the decision not to have a firearm in your household will do a lot more to keep you family safe than buying any type of gun.

In terms of explaining the reasons why people still choose to buy guns despite the widely known facts, I agree madness and stupidity must feature pretty strongly! Or perhaps certain men lacking something in the trouser department wanting to be macho or a "boys with toys" mentality?!

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0804-hemenway-defensive-gun-home-20150730-story.html

Almost two-thirds of the people in the U.S. population live in homes without guns, and there is no evidence that the inhabitants of these homes are at greater risk of being robbed, injured or killed by criminals compared with citizens in homes with guns. Instead, the evidence is overwhelming that a gun in the home increases the likelihood not only that a household member will be shot accidentally, but also that someone in the home will die in a suicide or homicide.

 

[Starmill]

The NRA and other Second Ammendment enthusiasts seem to be incredibly powerful lobbyists indeed. President Obama, who wanted to change the law with regard to firearms, often said that he was unable to.

 

[AlterEgo]

The USA as a society is a toilet. It really is.

Fabulous country, wonderful scenery, great individual people. But as a society it is well and truly f***ed.

 

[DarloRich]

Even the protection reason you allude to above is an emotional one, rather than one rooted in reality, as it is comprehensively debased by most studies on the issue (as you will know better than me).

The below article is interesting and suggests taking the decision not to have a firearm in your household will do a lot more to keep you family safe than buying any type of gun.

In terms of explaining the reasons why people still choose to buy guns despite the widely known facts, I agree madness and stupidity must feature pretty strongly! Or perhaps certain men lacking something in the trouser department wanting to be macho or a "boys with toys" mentality?!

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0804-hemenway-defensive-gun-home-20150730-story.html

I get (I think) the emotional reasoning: I am a manly man therefore buying a gun makes me even more manly and means I am protecting my family and home from the bad people etc.

The problem is that it is bull.

 

[Antman]

Not much I can add to what's been said, we've become rather blase to mass shootings in the USA but the scale of this one really is shocking.

Will they ever learn? A gun has only one purpose.

 

[AM9]

... Or perhaps certain men lacking something in the trouser department wanting to be macho or a "boys with toys" mentality. ...

Isn't the saying, small hands small .... er brain?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The NRA definitely has blood on its hands here. Problem is, any politician (Democrat or Republican) seeking election is scared stiff of the gun lobby. If they even hint at the slightest tightening of legislation they'll be bombarded with attack ads suggesting that they "want to let criminals shoot your kids!" and that they're "against your freedom" or even that they're "a pinko commie who hates America!". The same mentality that has prevented healthcare reform or any real attempt to prevent police violence.

It feels like the only way to solve it is to "rip it up and start again".

 

[GB]

Sadly the death toll is rising. Currently up to 58.

 

[TheEdge]

And the rest of the world looks on, takes a collective sigh, resets the "USA Mass Shooting Counter" and starts again.

 

[Harbouring]

Also at zero: number of people saved from being murdered by "thoughts and prayers"

 

[Darandio]

Also at zero: number of people saved from being murdered by "thoughts and prayers"

Apologies if saying that offended you. Although I wasn't expecting to save anyone by doing so, just seemed like the 'right' thing to say this morning.

 

[Bromley boy]

Also at zero: number of people saved from being murdered by "thoughts and prayers"

:roll:

That's an expression used to indicate sympathy for the victims and their families. If you believe its use is intended to prevent people from being murdered you've rather misunderstood.

 

[J-2739]

Oh ye, I bet if this happened in another country, we would have been more sympathetic. :roll:

 

[Bromley boy]

Oh ye, I bet if this happened in another country, we would have been more sympathetic. :roll:

Not sure I follow.

Speaking personally, I'd feel the same sympathy for the victims wherever it occurred. In this case the sympathy combines with frustration at the lax gun control laws in the US which allow these situations to occur time and time again, yet never prompt any change.

People will move on from this and there will probably be another mass shooting somewhere else in the states next week that won't even get reported over here because it has fewer victims.

 

[Bevan Price]

The NRA definitely has blood on its hands here. Problem is, any politician (Democrat or Republican) seeking election is scared stiff of the gun lobby. If they even hint at the slightest tightening of legislation they'll be bombarded with attack ads suggesting that they "want to let criminals shoot your kids!" and that they're "against your freedom" or even that they're "a pinko commie who hates America!". The same mentality that has prevented healthcare reform or any real attempt to prevent police violence.

.

It is not just that. The gun industry gives finacial support to the funds of politicians of both major political parties in USA (either directly, or via gun supportrers societies. )


See, for example:-
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000082

 

[Harbouring]

Apologies if saying that offended you. Although I wasn't expecting to save anyone by doing so, just seemed like the 'right' thing to say this morning.

I didn't see that you had said that and it's fair enough if you're not the president (unless you are??). It's an indictment of officials from the president downwards who all they have to offer is thoughts and prayers, each time something like this happens. It takes a real leader to step up and say "this is totally unacceptable" or "we'll make sure this never happens again" because the status quo will remain wherever tragic event happens and however many thoughts and prayers are expressed

 

[Darandio]

I didn't see that you had said that and it's fair enough if you're not the president (unless you are??). It's an indictment of officials from the president downwards who all they have to offer is thoughts and prayers, each time something like this happens. It takes a real leader to step up and say "this is totally unacceptable" or "we'll make sure this never happens again" because the status quo will remain wherever tragic event happens and however many thoughts and prayers are expressed

Oh I agree. I've seen many tweets today on various news feeds from various politicians through the US, i'm yet to see one with condemnation of guns, or any suggesting that something needs to be done.

I may have missed someone that did of course.

 

[EM2]

...there will probably be another mass shooting somewhere else in the states next week that won't even get reported over here because it has fewer victims.

There's already been one since Las Vegas, with three people killed and two injured in Lawrence, Kansas.
It is almost literally a daily occurence:
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It is not just that. The gun industry gives finacial support to the funds of politicians of both major political parties in USA (either directly, or via gun supportrers societies. )


See, for example:-
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000082

Agreed, that's sort of what I was saying...

Not only do they find both parties, they also threaten to withdraw that funding from candidates who refuse to toe the line.

 

[DarloRich]

Said Tango coloured excretea gibbon was on the radio reading a statement about this awful event. It sounded like he was reading aloud from a bed time story about bad people. FFS. Clown.

The thing to say is: enough is enough. We have to stop this. Now.

 

[Mag_seven]

Have we had the statement "its not the gun that kills people its the person that pulls the trigger" yet. Seems to be always be trotted out by the gun lobby after these events.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Said Tango coloured excretea gibbon was on the radio reading a statement about this awful event. It sounded like he was reading aloud from a bed time story about bad people. FFS. Clown.

The thing to say is: enough is enough. We have to stop this. Now.

If Obama couldn't do it, there's no way Trumpolini could do it even if he wanted to.

Still not as bad as his response to the crisis in Puerto Rico, where he didn't seem to realise that Puerto Ricans were American citizens and just talked about how tremendous the death toll was (as if he was in awe of it in a GOOD way) and accused them of being ****less and lazy. :roll: