Metrolink Manchester curious anomaly

[shredder1]

I recently had my pass checked while travelling between St Peters Square and Market Street, Ive never seen ticket checks before in Zone 1 and always presumed this was free, because you can`t buy a Zone one ticket. I questioned the inspector about this, and she simply said you can buy a Zone 1 ticket at the machine. I re-checked the machines up on alighting, but couldnt find this option for Zone 1 only, are you suppose to buy a Zone 1 and 2 ticket to travel in Zone 1 only? I cant help thinking that this may be confusing to visitors to the city?

 

[signed]

Probably not that relevant, but a lot of networks work that way

- In Paris, the shortest day pass you can get are zone 1-2
- In Milan your ticket gives you up to Mi3 and you can't buy shorter
- In London, caps and travelcards work on a Zone1-2 base

 

[jfollows]

A single zone single fare is £1.40 according to https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93...3954e7/Metrolink_Fares_Change_2020_A4_WEB.pdf

You can buy an all day ticket for zone 1 only.

The table includes single zone all day tickets for £2.70 peak, £1.90 off-peak.

Nowadays I and many would use contactless rather than buy a ticket from a machine. As well as capping at the same prices there’s a “bonus” that you get off-peak prices if you start before 7am. See https://tfgm.com/tickets-and-passes/tram-off-peak-all-day-travelcard-adult

Of course, this is theoretical and you have tried to use a machine, so there may be a problem there.

In the past I have bought a ticket St. Peter’s Square - Piccadilly because I was tired and didn’t want to walk, but that might have been before the zones were introduced.

NB Rail tickets originating elsewhere inside Greater Manchester are usually issued to Manchester Central Zone and include a zone 1 tram in the price, so this may be a reason for thinking that it's free. Rail tickets originating outside Greater Manchester, such as mine from Wilmslow, don't include this, so I've always known I had to pay for the tram. To be honest, I'd generally rather walk anyway, and there's always the free bus if I really don't want to pay or walk.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Believe you can't buy 'Zone 1 only' ticket(s) from any of the Metrolink TVMs located outside of Zone 1. You should, however, be able to do so from within the zone.

As regards @jfollows's follow-on point, starting from Wilmslow, you can, if you wish, buy through tickets to 'GM Metrolink Z1' (essentially Manchester Stns with Metrolink Zone 1 added on). However, there's no overall saving compared with getting separate tickets, and the through ticket isn't eligible to any railcard discounts.

 

[Haywain]

I cant help thinking that this may be confusing to visitors to the city?

As an occasional visitor to Manchester it has never occurred to me that the trams might be free, any more than it would in any other city.

 

[jfollows]

As regards @jfollows's follow-on point, starting from Wilmslow, you can, if you wish, buy through tickets to 'GM Metrolink Z1' (essentially Manchester Stns with Metrolink Zone 1 added on). However, there's no overall saving compared with getting separate tickets, and the through ticket isn't eligible to any railcard discounts.

Yes, it's always been possible to buy through tickets, the zone system probably makes it easier today but I bought Wilmslow-Sale through tickets in 1996. And I'd never consider paying extra for a through ticket to Zone 1 although it's always good to know I could; unless my destination were immediately adjacent to a tram stop and I had a lot to carry - for example - I'd always prefer to walk anyway.

As an occasional visitor to Manchester it has never occurred to me that the trams might be free, any more than it would in any other city.

Of course there are places where they are, Seattle (or is that only bus services?) and Portland (definitely free trams in the city centre when I was there >10 years ago) spring to mind, but we'd be getting off the point if we were to explore this further here, wouldn't we?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

As an occasional visitor to Manchester it has never occurred to me that the trams might be free, any more than it would in any other city.

There are the free buses. So it's not impossible that someone aware of those might also think that the same applied to the trams in the same area.

Although in practice it seems to me that most people would come down on the side of having to pay, in that in my experience (which does not extend to the west coast of the US) free public transport is very much the exception rather than the norm.

 

[Starmill]

I recently had my pass checked while travelling between St Peters Square and Market Street, Ive never seen ticket checks before in Zone 1

Ticket checks are very likely in zone 1, especially in or shortly after the morning peak.

because you can`t buy a Zone one ticket.

I'm unsure what gave you this idea I'm afraid, I've definitely bought one.

always presumed this was free

This is in general a very unwise assumption in life.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@shredder1. Just to clarify, where do you normally get the Metrolink from? Is it possibly Crumpsall in Zone 2?

 

[185]

Fairly clear (penalty) standard fare signage as you enter the platform and on board. But people still do get caught out... including several BBC presenters, a reasonably famous singer and the odd politician.

 

[Starmill]

Fairly clear (penalty) standard fare signage as you enter the platform and on board. But people still do get caught out... including several BBC presenters, a reasonably famous singer and the odd politician.

Indeed, and large black and yellow posters that say "Haven't paid? We'll charge you £120". I'm not sure what else that could mean.

 

[shredder1]

As an occasional visitor to Manchester it has never occurred to me that the trams might be free, any more than it would in any other city.

I get a lot of free travel in many European cities, Manchester has a free bus service in the central areas, the machine doesnt allow you to buy a zone 1 ticket, Birmingham, Nottingham etc allow you to buy tickets within the central areas you see. hence my curiosity.

@shredder1. Just to clarify, where do you normally get the Metrolink from? Is it possibly Crumpsall in Zone 2?

Yes but I have a free GM pass for rail and trams, it was just something I was curious about.

Ticket checks are very likely in zone 1, especially in or shortly after the morning peak.

Fair enough, Ive just never seen them before on the trams and I am a regular user

I'm unsure what gave you this idea I'm afraid, I've definitely bought one.

Not from a machine though they only allow Zones 1 and 2

This is in general a very unwise assumption in life.

Not necessarily

 

[6Gman]

I get a lot of free travel in many European cities, Manchester has a free bus service in the central areas, the machine doesnt allow you to buy a zone 1 ticket, Birmingham, Nottingham etc allow you to buy tickets within the central areas you see. hence my curiosity.

I have bought Zone 1 tickets from machines on recent visits to Manchester.

 

[Starmill]

the machine doesnt allow you to buy a zone 1 ticket, Birmingham, Nottingham etc allow you to buy tickets within the central areas you see.

OK but they do? Obviously they don't at Crumpsall because none of the machines offer tickets that aren't valid for immediate departure. You can't buy a ticket for tomorrow or for a journey you're starting later the same day, or an extension to your existing ticket, such as an annual season.

Fair enough, Ive just never seen them before on the trams and I am a regular user

You've never seen the signs at the entrance to every platform, on the doors of the tram facing outward, inside the tram above the doors alongside the route diagrams, or in the advertising space or poster cases on the platform? Really?

Not from a machine though they only allow Zones 1 and 2

As above.

Not necessarily

Maybe you can give us an example of a situation where you "presumed something is free" and that worked out to your advantage..?

 

[shredder1]

OK but they do? Obviously they don't at Crumpsall because none of the machines offer tickets that aren't valid for immediate departure. You can't buy a ticket for tomorrow or for a journey you're starting later the same day, or an extension to your existing ticket, such as an annual season.

Whats a strange reply?? I think maybe you should read my original post, but Ill try to answer as best I can. This doesnt really make sense, not sure how Crumpsall comes into this, I simply said a zone 1 ticket only doesnt appear on the machines at St Peter Square, I use a free pensioners pass, so dont need any additional tickets, I was just curious why the machines didnt have a Zone 1 ticket for Zone 1 only?? For reference Crumpsall is Zone 2.

You've never seen the signs at the entrance to every platform, on the doors of the tram facing outward, inside the tram above the doors alongside the route diagrams, or in the advertising space or poster cases on the platform? Really?

Sorry, I really have no idea what you are talking about ?? signs telling you that you can buy Zone 1 tickets ???

As above.


Maybe you can give us an example of a situation where you "presumed something is free" and that worked out to your advantage..?

I havent said that??? please reread my original post?? Im sorry but it does sound like you are arguing for the sake of it.

I have bought Zone 1 tickets from machines on recent visits to Manchester.

Ive just found a Youtube clip which shows one 1 option on some machines, Ill photograph the one I found without a zone 1 option, cheers.

 

[Ailsa_Craig]

As an occasional visitor to Manchester it has never occurred to me that the trams might be free, any more than it would in any other city.

Kansas City, and presumably Luxembourg have free trams

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I simply said a zone 1 ticket only doesnt appear on the machines at St Peter Square,

I've bought Zone 1 only tickets at both Victoria and Piccadilly in the past.
I'd be incredibly surprised if Zone 1 tickets didn't show up at St Peter's Square.

 

[shredder1]

I've bought Zone 1 only tickets at both Victoria and Piccadilly in the past.
I'd be incredibly surprised if Zone 1 tickets didn't show up at St Peter's Square.

Ill be down there this week, Ill photograph it, maybe its just the one machine, I thought they were all the same, so I dont know ??

 

[Haywain]

Kansas City, and presumably Luxembourg have free trams

To quote an earlier poster:

Of course there are places where they are, Seattle (or is that only bus services?) and Portland (definitely free trams in the city centre when I was there >10 years ago) spring to mind, but we'd be getting off the point if we were to explore this further here, wouldn't we?

 

[shredder1]

Kansas City, and presumably Luxembourg have free trams

Ive noticed that in a number of European cities, but a lot of them are age related, a few stopped it after Brexit though, Budapest is one of them, but a number of Polish, Slovakian and Czech cities allow it dependant on which age group you fall into, in fact in Slovakia I get free rail-travel all over the country, but pay a small supplement for the night trains, I thought I would lose it after Brexit, but I was issues with a new card last time I was in Bratislava. In countries like Portugal and Spain pensioners also get discounts, 50% off in Portugal and you show your UK passport to obtain at ticket, so they know we are no longer in Europe. Apologies if Im going off topic, maybe we should have a separate thread for free travel in other cities? To get back on topic, Ill photograph the machine I checked, cheers.

 

[randyrippley]

As an occasional visitor to Manchester.......I don't use the trams because they're too damned confusing with garbage like this

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As an occasional visitor to Manchester.......I don't use the trams because they're too damned confusing with garbage like this

In what way confusing? Inability to buy Zone 1 ticket(s) for the City Centre from a Metrolink TVM within Zone 1?

 

[shredder1]

In what way confusing? Inability to buy Zone 1 ticket(s) for the City Centre from a Metrolink TVM within Zone 1?

The machine I checked didnt have the Zone 1 only option, but it would appear some have, maybe its a one off, I didnt think to check any others, cheers. The screens outside Zone 1, do start at Zones 1 and 2 of course, I wonder if there has been some mixed up?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The machine I checked didnt have the Zone 1 only option, but it would appear some have, maybe its a one off, I didnt think to check any others, cheers. The screens outside Zone 1, do start at Zones 1 and 2 of course, I wonder if there has been some mixed up?

There's several TVMs at St. Peter's Square in the middle of the separate island platforms. Might need to check them all. Certainly not right if one or more of these TVMs, for whatever reason, isn't offering Zone 1 only tickets for travel solely within Manchester city centre.

 

[Mag_seven]

Apologies if Im going off topic, maybe we should have a separate thread for free travel in other cities?

Indeed, feel free to start one.

 

[shredder1]

As an occasional visitor to Manchester.......I don't use the trams because they're too damned confusing with garbage like this

I suppose once you are used to using them, they are fine

Indeed, feel free to start one.

OK thank you, would this be the best section to put it in?

 

[John R]

As an occasional visitor to Manchester.......I don't use the trams because they're too damned confusing with garbage like this

I visited Manchester last year for the first time in many years. It seemed remarkably easy to pay for the trams, simply by touching in and out using contactless. What am I missing that is so hard?

 

[etr221]

Given Manchester's free buses running in Zone 1, advertising 'Free travel around Manchester city centre', such free travel on other TfGM modes (e.g. tram) is something I would at least half expect... I'm sure there are other systems round the world with a similar 'free in the middle' offer.

 

[warwickshire]

I recently had my pass checked while travelling between St Peters Square and Market Street, Ive never seen ticket checks before in Zone 1 and always presumed this was free, because you can`t buy a Zone one ticket. I questioned the inspector about this, and she simply said you can buy a Zone 1 ticket at the machine. I re-checked the machines up on alighting, but couldnt find this option for Zone 1 only, are you suppose to buy a Zone 1 and 2 ticket to travel in Zone 1 only? I cant help thinking that this may be confusing to visitors to the city?

Yes I have seen inspectors before in the city centre, seen the inspectors at both Manchester Picadillly and Manchester Victoria, also as well in the past have had Zone 1 tickets, even train tickets routed via metrolink, for example Rochdale to Stockport, plus Reddish North to Sale Metrolink tickets, Gm Railrovers, in the early to Mid Nineties, also in the mid Nineties. When coming back from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Picadillly on the tram in the evenings, tram inspectors was quite common on trams in the city centre.

 

[jfollows]

I visited Manchester last year for the first time in many years. It seemed remarkably easy to pay for the trams, simply by touching in and out using contactless. What am I missing that is so hard?

It's not hard at all, of course, but every system's different, so on first use it requires some research to understand what to do. For example, in London you generally need to register your card to get a receipt; in Manchester you can't register your card and you don't need to. You also have to tap out after using Manchester's trams, unlike in London. So it just takes a couple of minutes before using for the first time.

I don't use Metrolink very much and I only used contactless for the first time in January, it worked fine of course and now I know exactly what I need to do.

But if I went to Nottingham I'd be confused unless I'd done some research in advance, for example.

And don't get me started on bus fares - I understand London so I use them there but I don't know what the fares are or how exactly to pay for the one that stops at the end of my road in Wilmslow. If I wanted to use it, I'd go and look it up first.

EDIT Wasn't this some of the logic behind the ITSO card, which only seems to be usable in some places still, so isn't worth bothering with in general - if it were accepted on just about all types of public transport that would mean that I wouldn't have to worry about turning up in Nottingham and using it on a tram. At the moment I'd have to do my research to see whether or not I could use it, which kind of defeats the purpose.