MG-11 issued - what does it mean?

[Ally29]

Hi all,

I was travelling from Milton Keynes. I was in a hurry to catch the train and did not purchase a ticket (I know, very silly of me). I was looking at my phone at the time as I approached the barriers and saw that there was one open in front of me. I therefore went through the barrier and I thought I would purchase my ticket once I get to my destination (again, very silly of me). Once I got to my destination, I approached the ticket inspector to purchase a ticket. The ticket inspector asked how I got through as the barriers at Milton Keynes were closed. She called her colleagues to confirm that the barriers were in fact closed. She then accused me of ‘double shuffling’ that is going through the barrier after someone puts in their ticket. I explained that I genuinely did not see any other barriers but the one in front of me as I was on my phone. Also, nobody stopped me at the time so I assumed it was an open barrier. Maybe someone had put in their ticket before and there was a lag in the barrier closing? I honestly don't know.

She then proceeded to write an ‘mg-11’, a witness statement I suppose. I explained that this was a one time mistake and a judgement error on my part. I should’ve purchased a ticket and waited for the next train. It was not my intention to not purchase a ticket. I regularly travel and actually had previous tickets in my bag to show her. I would've purchased a ticket on my phone but my internet was very slow hence why I approached her.

I asked to pay whatever the penalty was there and then and she refused. She said that I would instead be contacted by letter with a penalty fare to pay which which also includes the fare of the journey. She said if I did not pay this penalty within the allocated time period it would turn to into a fine of a £1000 and a possible prosecution.

I am worried about the mg-11. Is this something that goes on my record or merely a witness statement ? I was very forthcoming, gave all the correct details/ address and explained it was a genuine mistake. I should not have been on my phone and should have been aware of my surroundings. I should've purchased a ticket and just waited for the next train. The fare wasn't even that much and it was not a matter of me not being able to afford it, just a stupid mistake. I'm aware that not having a valid ticket on your journey is and again, took ownership of my mistake and wanted to pay.

Is there a difference between paying on the spot and being issued an mg-11? I would appreciate any advice about the mg-11 and whether the rail company conducts any further investigations or just sends you a penalty.

For reference, the train was London northwestern railway.

Thank you so much in advance.

 

[mikeg]

An mg11 is indeed a witness statement, Magistrates Guidance form 11. The time has passed for an on the spot penalty and in any case your actions were serious enough for prosecution to be considered. The goal is therefore to avoid this. The company will likely write to you to ask for your version of the events, you need to apologise, reassure them it won't happen again and offer to reimburse their costs and the fare owed. Leave the exact amount up to them. They have upto six months to lay papers before the court.

As for it going on your record, no, it won't be on anything other than the TOC's internal record. However if you are convicted in court it may go on your record depending which legislation they use. You've broken two railway byelaws by misusing the barriers and travelling without a valid ticket. However you could also be argued to be in breach of the regulation of railways act 1889 section 5. The last of these goes on your criminal record.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

As you have worked out, the MG-11 is just a record of the conversation that you had with the railway. So of itself it does not mean that you have a criminal record (although I suppose that the railway are entitled to retain it for a while in their records and could use it as evidence of behaviour should someone be picked up for making a habit of not buying a ticket when they should).

There are three possible things that could happen now

- nothing: the railway reviews what they have recorded, and decide to take no further action. To be certain that the railway have gone down this route you will have to wait for seven or eight months (why so long? Becuase if the railway want to take you to court they have to tell the court within six months - and then the court has to tell you within a few weeks.). In our experience, this is possible but unlikely
- the railway (or their agents - several railway companies employ an organisation called 'Transport Investigations Ltd') will write to you, quite possibly saying that the case is being considered for prosecution and asking for your side of the story. In our experience, this is what is likely to happen. More on this below.
- the railway take you straight to court so the first you hear is a letter from the court either asking you to plead, or giving a court date. In our experience this is possible but unlikely.

So you will probably, in the next month or so, be getting a letter asking for your side of the story. This is the time when you should write briefly but accurately, courteously and sincerely
- explaining how you came to make the mistake
- confirming that you understand that you were in the wrong and that you won't repeat the offence
- offering to pay the fare that you should have paid and any reasonable costs that the railway has incurred.

Quite often, the railway will agree to settling out of court like this. If they do their costs will be something up to around £150 plus the train fare, and you will not have a criminal record as the whole matter has not gone anywhere near the court. But it can also be the case that the railway continue to say they will take the matter to court. So repeat your offer to settle out of court - and do so every time you are in touch with them. We do hear of cases that are settled out of court, but literally on the day of the hearing, so it is worth persisting.

If the worst comes to the worst and the matter goes to court and you are convicted (either because you plead guilty or because the magistrates find you guilty) then you will face a fine, plus court costs, plus prosecution costs, plus the fare you should have paid. This will most likely come to more than any settlement that may have been offered. You will also have a 'criminal record' which in some circumstances (some sensitive job applications for example) will have to be declared. But - again, in general, and particular circumstances may vary - this should not ruin your life or cause you to lose a job unless you conceal it. Most employers accept that from time to time people make mistakes (like not paying a train fare when they should have done): but they can get quite cross if people try to conceal that sort of conviction (because that adds dishonesty to the initial mistake).

In short - don't panic. If you co-operate with the railway, this can probably be solved straightforwardly if at a bit of a hit on your bank account.

 

[Ally29]

Welcome to the forum.

As you have worked out, the MG-11 is just a record of the conversation that you had with the railway. So of itself it does not mean that you have a criminal record (although I suppose that the railway are entitled to retain it for a while in their records and could use it as evidence of behaviour should someone be picked up for making a habit of not buying a ticket when they should).

There are three possible things that could happen now

- nothing: the railway reviews what they have recorded, and decide to take no further action. To be certain that the railway have gone down this route you will have to wait for seven or eight months (why so long? Becuase if the railway want to take you to court they have to tell the court within six months - and then the court has to tell you within a few weeks.). In our experience, this is possible but unlikely
- the railway (or their agents - several railway companies employ an organisation called 'Transport Investigations Ltd') will write to you, quite possibly saying that the case is being considered for prosecution and asking for your side of the story. In our experience, this is what is likely to happen. More on this below.
- the railway take you straight to court so the first you hear is a letter from the court either asking you to plead, or giving a court date. In our experience this is possible but unlikely.

So you will probably, in the next month or so, be getting a letter asking for your side of the story. This is the time when you should write briefly but accurately, courteously and sincerely
- explaining how you came to make the mistake
- confirming that you understand that you were in the wrong and that you won't repeat the offence
- offering to pay the fare that you should have paid and any reasonable costs that the railway has incurred.

Quite often, the railway will agree to settling out of court like this. If they do their costs will be something up to around £150 plus the train fare, and you will not have a criminal record as the whole matter has not gone anywhere near the court. But it can also be the case that the railway continue to say they will take the matter to court. So repeat your offer to settle out of court - and do so every time you are in touch with them. We do hear of cases that are settled out of court, but literally on the day of the hearing, so it is worth persisting.

If the worst comes to the worst and the matter goes to court and you are convicted (either because you plead guilty or because the magistrates find you guilty) then you will face a fine, plus court costs, plus prosecution costs, plus the fare you should have paid. This will most likely come to more than any settlement that may have been offered. You will also have a 'criminal record' which in some circumstances (some sensitive job applications for example) will have to be declared. But - again, in general, and particular circumstances may vary - this should not ruin your life or cause you to lose a job unless you conceal it. Most employers accept that from time to time people make mistakes (like not paying a train fare when they should have done): but they can get quite cross if people try to conceal that sort of conviction (because that adds dishonesty to the initial mistake).

In short - don't panic. If you co-operate with the railway, this can probably be solved straightforwardly if at a bit of a hit on your bank account.

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. I guess its a waiting game for now. The ticket inspector made it sound like the letter would just contain the penalty charge and only if I don't pay the penalty would the case be considered for prosecution. I wasn't aware that I would possibly have to write back to the railway. I will keep your advice in mind if it comes to that. Thanks again.

An mg11 is indeed a witness statement, Magistrates Guidance form 11. The time has passed for an on the spot penalty and in any case your actions were serious enough for prosecution to be considered. The goal is therefore to avoid this. The company will likely write to you to ask for your version of the events, you need to apologise, reassure them it won't happen again and offer to reimburse their costs and the fare owed. Leave the exact amount up to them. They have upto six months to lay papers before the court.

As for it going on your record, no, it won't be on anything other than the TOC's internal record. However if you are convicted in court it may go on your record depending which legislation they use. You've broken two railway byelaws by misusing the barriers and travelling without a valid ticket. However you could also be argued to be in breach of the regulation of railways act 1889 section 5. The last of these goes on your criminal record.

Thank you! I wasn't aware that there was a time limit for 'on the spot' penalty.

Just to add in, the ticket inspector used to a blank A4 piece of paper to take my statement rather than an official form (mg-11). I'm not sure whether this is common.

 

[MotCO]

I wasn't aware that I would possibly have to write back to the railway. I will keep your advice in mind if it comes to that.

Although you have written a fairly detailed description of what happened, it may be helpful to write a full account of what you can remember whilst it is still fresh in your mind. If they write to you some time after Christmas, you may forget some of the details, and by writing it now, you will be able to add to it when you remember other details.

To be clear, you do not need to write these details on this forum - they are essentially your own personal notes.

 

[Llanigraham]

Just to add in, the ticket inspector used to a blank A4 piece of paper to take my statement rather than an official form (mg-11). I'm not sure whether this is common.

Perfectly normal and allowed.

 

[island]

I have little to add to the excellent post above by Fawkes Cat but I will add this point which helps us to advise on the likely offences that might be charged.

Do you remember the ticket inspector asking a question to the effect of “if you had not encountered me today, would you have paid for your fare?” If so, how did you answer?