Missed by one stop on the Stansted Express

[BAT]

Hi all

I need some advice please,

I missed the stop at Tottenham Court Road Tottenham Hale and instead got off at Liverpool street and was fined on the spot for a total of £57. I am wondering if there is any recourse, it seems very harsh!?

Facts
- return ticket bought via trainline the prior day and i boarded at the correct station on my inital journey.
- I offered to hop on an outgoing train back but they said that would be commiting another offence.
- railcard was valid and applied
- railway staff was mostly polite and incouraged me to appeal

Thank you

 

[AlterEgo]

Could you please upload the notice, with your details removed? "Seems harsh" is not a ground to appeal, but if the notice was filled in improperly it may be unenforceable on technical grounds, which we can examine for you.

 

[The exile]

Guessing you mean Tottenham Hale rather than Tottenham Court Road?

 

[BAT]

Guessing you mean Tottenham Hale rather than Tottenham Court Road?

I do, thank you

 

[SeanG]

What were the circumstances of you missing your stop? Did the doors fail to open etc.? Or did you fail to get off on your own account?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@BAT. Welcome to the forum. Guess you'd rather not be here!

I missed the stop at Tottenham Hale and instead got off at Liverpool street and was fined on the spot for a total of £57.

Was that £57 exactly or maybe £56.70 (= £6.70 unpaid fare plus a £50 penalty fare, when paid promptly, as seems to be the case)?

- railway staff was mostly polite and incouraged me to appeal

We've heard of folk being stopped by RPIs being told that sort of thing previously, possibly so that the encounter doesn't then become unnecessarily confrontational. Might not mean that any such appeal has a high probability of being successful, unless there are technical grounds, as @AlterEgo has made reference to.

 

[Hadders]

Exactly what ticket did you purchase to travel between Stansted Airport and Tottenham Hale?

 

[dosxuk]

When you ended up at Liverpool Street, did you ask staff about how to get back to Tottenham Hale, or did you try to leave the station?

 

[BAT]

Could you please upload the notice, with your details removed? "Seems harsh" is not a ground to appeal, but if the notice was filled in improperly it may be unenforceable on technical grounds, which we can examine for you.

When you ended up at Liverpool Street, did you ask staff about how to get back to Tottenham Hale, or did you try to leave the station?

When you ended up at Liverpool Street, did you ask staff about how to get back to Tottenham Hale, or did you try to leave the station?

I got stopped trying to exit, then offered to go back to Tottenham hale

Exactly what ticket did you purchase to travel between Stansted Airport and Tottenham Hale?

Ticket including Anytime return to stanstead from Tottenham hale. Using a 26-30 railcard. via Trainline

 

[JordR]

This says you didn't have a valid ticket beyond Shenfield. It might help the experts here if you could upload a copy of your ticket (redacted similarly) and also let us know which railcard you hold.

 

[BAT]

@BAT. Welcome to the forum. Guess you'd rather not be here!

Was that £57 exactly or maybe £56.70 (= £6.70 unpaid fare plus a £50 penalty fare, when paid promptly, as seems to be the case)?

We've heard of folk being stopped by RPIs being told that sort of thing previously, possibly so that the encounter doesn't then become unnecessarily confrontational. Might not mean that any such appeal has a high probability of being successful, unless there are technical grounds, as @AlterEgo has made reference to.

50 for the penalty and 7 for the fare it looks like

 

[kacper]

I see that the inspector put that you came from Shenfield, that may be grounds to appeal but someone will confirm

 

[AlterEgo]

We need to know exactly which train you were on, exactly what ticket you held, and where exactly you were caught on the station. That PF may be non compliant.

 

[JBuchananGB]

If you overtravelled past Tottenham Hale, and showed the inspector the ticket to Tottenham Hale, but the Penalty Fare has been issued as if you overtravelled from Shenfield, then surely you have a slam dunk appeal on grounds that you did not travel from Shenfield to Liverpool Street. Upload the ticket here so experts can check, and recommend the best wording for your letter of appeal.

 

[island]

We need to know exactly which train you were on, exactly what ticket you held, and where exactly you were caught on the station. That PF may be non compliant.

I don't think we do need any of that, the PF is already clearly non-compliant for at least the following reasons:

• The fare of £7 is the fare from Stratford to London Terminals, but the noted station was Shenfield to London Terminals.
• The OP says they took the Stansted Express and the PF said it was issued on 25•FBY•25. No Stansted Express service called at Shenfield (or for that matter Stratford) on 25•FBY•25.

If the passenger travelled from Stansted Airport to Liverpool Street, the only valid amount for which to issue the Penalty Fare is £123.90 (reduced to £73.90), based on the fare for that journey. The Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 require the penalty fare to be calculated based on the "boarding station" and do not provide for a ticket covering part of the journey to be taken into account.

It would seem to me that the inspector tried to be a little generous and charge a lesser amount, but in doing so has issued an invalid penalty fare.

Now, we have seen recently some appeals based on the penalty fare being less than the correct amount being refused. An appeal in this case could go the same way. I do not know if it will or not. As it stands, with the PF having been paid on the spot, the matter is closed as far as Greater Anglia is concerned. It is for the passenger to decide whether they wish to appeal on the basis of not having been charged enough. Doing so might prompt Greater Anglia to cancel and refund the penalty fare and instead commence a prosecution of the passenger for an offence under section 5 (3) (b) of the Regulation of Railways Act or section 103 of the Railway Clauses Consolidation Act. Or it might not.

 

[Starmill]

I would appeal on the technical basis that you were said to have come from Shenfield, and you didn't, you came from Stansted Airport. Also, the last time I was at Stansted Airport it was fairly apparent that there wasn't enough signage there to possibly comply with the standard. You may be able to mention that or use it as a ground at the second stage appeal. I wouldn't focus on the price but I would emphasise in your appeal that the Regulations haven't been followed in issuing the notice, so it's not valid.

It seems likely that the member of staff had accidentally left different details from a previous passenger in the form.