More high quality Merseyrail ticketing staff!

[Bletchleyite]

So this morning Aughton Park booking office was closed, so I had to pay at Central. Presumably knowing there were a number of closures there were several RPIs standing by the exit gateline selling tickets.

I go up to one, show him my MetroCard, tell him the booking office was closed and ask for a Saveaway.

He rings up a Merseyrail day ticket*, takes payment and issues it. 5 seconds later I realise what he's done. "That isn't a Saveaway" say I. "It's the same" says he. "No it isn't" says I. He looks at me funny. "I need one with the buses". "Oh". He refunds it and sends me to the Mtogo where I get one. (At least he did refund it, but it wasted several minutes of my time - I half expected to have to do a chargeback with my bank to be honest).

I bet at least one person needing a Saveaway didn't get issued one today and didn't realise or see fit to argue.

Why is there such utter incompetence pervading anyone that has anything to do with tickets on Merseyrail? I know they're historically insular with regard to tickets outside their network, but seriously?

* Not being a local I'm not familiar with the exact prices, else I'd have noticed before paying, but I shouldn't have to!

 

[507021]

You should have told the RPI at the beginning you specifically wanted to purchase a SaveAway on your MetroCard because you'd also like to travel by bus, at which point they'd have directed you to the MtoGo store and saved you both the unnecessary hassle. Because you weren't specific with your ticket requirements at the outset, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the RPI to have assumed you only wanted to travel by rail. After all, I'm rather certain I'm not the only person in the world who purchases a SaveAway on their MetroCard just for rail journeys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You should have told the RPI at the beginning you specifically wanted to purchase a SaveAway on your MetroCard because you'd also like to travel by bus, at which point they'd have directed you to the MtoGo store and saved you both the unnecessary hassle. Because you weren't specific with your ticket requirements at the outset, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the RPI to have assumed you only wanted to travel by rail. After all, I'm rather certain I'm not the only person in the world who purchases a SaveAway on their MetroCard just for rail journeys.

I asked clearly for "an All Zones Saveaway" while proffering a MetroCard. There is only one product offered under that name. The Merseyrail-only product is called "a DaySaver" and is only sold on paper, not on the MetroCard.

I should not have to explain to an RPI of all people what that is.

Please don't defend such gross incompetence. Though I'd accept a mistake - when I told him it wasn't a Saveaway he'd issued his response to that was worse.

When I then went into the Mtogo the same request got the correct ticket without any confusion.

 

[py_megapixel]

"Saveaway" and "Day saver" aren't exactly difficult names to confuse, though I agree that someone trained in revenue protection should know the difference.

I think the more important question is why the "Day saver" even exists in the first place. It seems to be designed purely to cause confusion (and possibly to increase Merseyrail's share of the revenue) as it's only 5p cheaper than a Saveaway and has massively more restricted validity. Just get rid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Saveaway" and "Day saver" aren't exactly difficult names to confuse, though I agree that someone trained in revenue protection should know the difference.

That's very true, but if there's any confusion the right thing to do is to ask the customer to clarify what they want, not to default to something that may well not be that (and worse, when the customer queries it tell them they're wrong!).

I think the more important question is why the "Day saver" even exists in the first place. It seems to be designed purely to cause confusion (and possibly to increase Merseyrail's share of the revenue) as it's only 5p cheaper than a Saveaway and has massively more restricted validity. Just get rid.

I can't disagree with that. It is a revenue grab pure and simple.

 

[507021]

I asked clearly for "an All Zones Saveaway" while proffering a MetroCard. There is only one product offered under that name. The Merseyrail-only product is called "a DaySaver" and is only sold on paper, not on the MetroCard.

I should not have to explain to an RPI of all people what that is.

Please don't defend such gross incompetence. Though I'd accept a mistake - when I told him it wasn't a Saveaway he'd issued his response to that was worse.

When I then went into the Mtogo the same request got the correct ticket without any confusion.

I was trying to explain it's actually helpful to be specific even in situations like yours. What stopped you from telling the RPI at the outset that you specifically wanted a SaveAway on your MetroCard? They aren't going to know you want to use buses as well unless you actually tell them. You've just said where there's any confusion, the customer should be asked (correct), but it makes things far easier if the customer specifies exactly what they want to buy at the beginning. Why couldn't you have done that? As a former bus driver, I found it far more helpful when boarding passengers specified the exact day or week ticket they wished to purchase, instead of just saying "day ticket" or "week ticket" and then me having to ask them which one, otherwise I'd have ended up with countless instances like this where the wrong ticket was sold and time wasted to process a ticket cancellation and refund.

Clear differences between the two ticket names aside, it costs absolutely nothing to make someone else's job easier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was trying to explain it's actually helpful to be specific even in situations like yours. What stopped you from telling the RPI at the outset that you specifically wanted a SaveAway on your MetroCard?

I did.

They aren't going to know you want to use buses as well unless you actually tell them. You've just said where there's any confusion, the customer should be asked (correct), but it makes things far easier if the customer specifies exactly what they want to buy at the beginning.

Again, I did. There is only one product called an "All Zones Saveaway". It is sold (at Merseyrail stations) only on a Metrocard, and the other product that was sold isn't. There's no ambiguity in what I asked for, it was very specific. And I waved a MetroCard at him too, on which you can't issue a Merseyrail Only Daysaver, that's a paper-only product at present.

Why couldn't you have done that? As a former bus driver, I found it far more helpful when boarding passengers specified the exact day or week ticket they wished to purchase, instead of just saying "day ticket" or "week ticket" and then me having to ask them which one, otherwise I'd have ended up with countless instances like this where the wrong ticket was sold and time wasted to process a ticket cancellation and refund.

I did specify the ticket. There is only one ticket sold under the name I asked for (unless you're going to say I could have specified adult or child, but being 6 foot 4 and greying I think it's a bit obvious which I wanted there! ), and only one (other than seasons and various different zones) sold on the MetroCard I showed him!

Clear differences between the two ticket names aside, it costs absolutely nothing to make someone else's job easier.

It costs nothing to know the names of the tiny number of ticketing products on sale there, and if you're not sure to ask the customer! However it was clearly clear enough (!) as the exact same request in the Mtogo resulted in the correct ticket being issued with no clarification needed.

If he'd said "which one do you mean" I'd have said "the one you can use on the bus as well" but he didn't, he assumed - wrongly - and then worse wrongly "reassured" me he was right when I questioned it. If you wanted to buy a copy of the Sun* would you just go into the newsagent and ask for The Sun, or would you say "Can I have a copy of the Sun please, you know, the Murdoch redtop they don't buy in Liverpool?"

* I don't, obviously, given my origins

 

[prod_pep]

I've learnt to pass the clerk my Metrocard at the very outset when buying a Saveaway, to remove any doubt, having been wrongly sold the Merseyrail-only Daysaver despite clearly asking for a Saveaway on several occasions.

Before the Saveaway went card-only, the request went something like this: 'an all-zone Saveaway - the one for buses and trains - please'. My inner cynic was convinced they were asked to 'convert' as many Saveaway sales to Daysavers as possible.

 

[Watershed]

You should have told the RPI at the beginning you specifically wanted to purchase a SaveAway on your MetroCard because you'd also like to travel by bus, at which point they'd have directed you to the MtoGo store and saved you both the unnecessary hassle. Because you weren't specific with your ticket requirements at the outset, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the RPI to have assumed you only wanted to travel by rail. After all, I'm rather certain I'm not the only person in the world who purchases a SaveAway on their MetroCard just for rail journeys.

The RPI shouldn't be assuming anything. If they're in doubt as to whether the OP wanted a DaySaver or SaveAway they should have asked.

Proffering a MetroCard and asking for a SaveAway is about as clear as it gets. If the RPI can't cope with such a basic request, they shouldn't be in that job.

 

[507021]

Partially deleted, didn't notice important part of the OP's experience on first read of the thread.

That said, experiences like these would be avoided completely if Merseytravel pulled their finger out and facilitated the purchase of SaveAways online. I won't hold my breath though!

As for the DaySaver itself, it needs reducing to nearer £5 or discontinuing. A cheaper rail-only saver is a useful option, but only when the saving is worthwhile.

 

[TUC]

It should not rely on the customer's initiative to be very specific. It is reasonable to expect as part of their job for a member of staff to ask questions if there is any ambiguity over what a customer has asked for.

Not every customer will have the detailed knowledge to be specific. However, every member of staff involved with ticket sales should have that knowledge.

 

[gray1404]

It certainly is not a requirement to mention the desire to use buses when buying a Saveaway. The OP might have wanted to use the "city line" and go nowhere near a bus.

 

[Spandau]

I heard that the DaySavers open the main line barriers at Lime Street, even though they are not valid on the City Line! They really are a poor product.

 

[Red Rover]

To avoid confusion handing someone a walrus or a metrocard indicates someone wanting a saveaway, the saveaway - day saver merry go round of wanting a bus, multiple journeys, ferries and buses effectively wastes peoples time if its rhetorical.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To avoid confusion handing someone a walrus or a metrocard indicates someone wanting a saveaway, the saveaway - day saver merry go round of wanting a bus, multiple journeys, ferries and buses effectively wastes peoples time if its rhetorical.

Not sure what you mean there, but I did intend to use a bus and did use one!

 

[Red Rover]

If you hand someone a metrocard and request a saveaway you should be given it. When people don't state they want to use a bus, ferry or multiple journeys people sometimes simply give a day saver out, should they? No they they should ask but without knowing exactly what was said its impossible to say, things always get lost in translation.

 

[507021]

If he'd said "which one do you mean" I'd have said "the one you can use on the bus as well" but he didn't, he assumed - wrongly - and then worse wrongly "reassured" me he was right when I questioned it. If you wanted to buy a copy of the Sun* would you just go into the newsagent and ask for The Sun, or would you say "Can I have a copy of the Sun please, you know, the Murdoch redtop they don't buy in Liverpool?"

* I don't, obviously, given my origins

Having sat down to re-read the thread and picking up on this (my bold), I'm going to have to change my stance and side with the customer here. If he'd sold you the wrong ticket, apologised for his mistake and then directed you to the correct place, that's still not ideal, but at least he's apologised. But to sell you the wrong ticket and then try to tell you it was what you'd asked for when it wasn't, without an apology, that's completely unacceptable, poor knowledge and dreadful customer service. I have to admit I was trying to look for some mitigation from being on the seller side myself (albeit on a bus), but after picking up on the bolded part, there just isn't any whatsoever. I apologise for not picking up on it on my first read of the thread, it was one of those days for me.

If only you'd had the ticket seller who sold me a SaveAway when I wanted a DaySaver (I wanted a dated ticket as it was a significant date) a while ago!

I hope you have a good Christmas, whatever you get up to.

 

[clagmonster]

Given that the passenger had already been put out by the booking office at their originating station being closed and therefore having to delay themselves to see the RPI, surely the good customer service would have been to offer the Safeway ticket on paper rather than redirect to the Central booking office/ shop? I know Merseyrail Electrics prefer these tickets on the smartcard, but it remains possible to issue them on paper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that the passenger had already been put out by the booking office at their originating station being closed and therefore having to delay themselves to see the RPI, surely the good customer service would have been to offer the Safeway ticket on paper rather than redirect to the Central booking office/ shop? I know Merseyrail Electrics prefer these tickets on the smartcard, but it remains possible to issue them on paper.

That's initially what I thought he had done, then thankfully I read it again before walking off.

 

[Skie]

Complain to Merseytravel and Merseyrail, only way to get them to actually sort training out and gives Merseytravel more ammunition to have a go at Merseyrail for not retailing the PTEs tickets.

 

[Djgr]

That's initially what I thought he had done, then thankfully I read it again before walking off.

I think it is technically possible for them to issue paper Saveaways but this is not their policy and therefore you should be suspicious if no Metrocard (or Walrus) is being involved within the transaction.

 

[Kendalian]

Sadly Miseryrail's barrier staff do regularly demonstrate a standard of knowledge falling well short of what is expected of a competent ticket inspector.

June 2022 I has a Lancashire Day ranger ticket, arrived at Southport from Wigan Wallgate, showed ticket to barrier man and let through.

30 min later returned to station and put ticket through barrier, rejected. Showed to barrier man, who mumbled incoherently about Leyland (where the LDR ticket was issued) and let me through barrier.
"As I walked down to P1 to board the 507 to Liv Central, I was literally shouted and balled at down the platform that I "HAD" to get the Northern service to Wigan W.

I have a trait of going hard of hearing at times like these thankfully.

I'm planning to do another LDR next month through Southport. The camera will be switched on and recording next time!

 

[185143]

Sadly Miseryrail's barrier staff do regularly demonstrate a standard of knowledge falling well short of what is expected of a competent ticket inspector.

June 2022 I has a Lancashire Day ranger ticket, arrived at Southport from Wigan Wallgate, showed ticket to barrier man and let through.

30 min later returned to station and put ticket through barrier, rejected. Showed to barrier man, who mumbled incoherently about Leyland (where the LDR ticket was issued) and let me through barrier.
"As I walked down to P1 to board the 507 to Liv Central, I was literally shouted and balled at down the platform that I "HAD" to get the Northern service to Wigan W.

I have a trait of going hard of hearing at times like these thankfully.

I'm planning to do another LDR next month through Southport. The camera will be switched on and recording next time!

I was once told at Liverpool Central that my Saveaway was only valid in Sheffield!

It was issued on bog roll by a TPE conductor who must have been based as Sheffield as it said "Issued at Sheffield" on it.

If they can't even know their own tickets, you've got no chance...

 

[urbophile]

What must be unbelievably confusing to non-locals (as well as many locals) is the distinction between Merseytravel and Merseyrail. They use the same branding, and it's only in situations like this that the difference becomes crucial. Even ignoring buses and ferries, the difference between Merseyrail (Electrics) and the City Line is not apparent, at least until you get on a train. City Line stations are even branded as Merseyrail, I think, and not Merseytravel, and yet Merseyrail specific tickets are not valid there. How is any ordinary mortal expected to understand this?

An even more bizarre example is a few years ago when the (sole) ticket machine at South Parkway was out of action. The machine was owned and operated by Northern; the station complex, including the bus terminals, is Merseytravel; but the ticket office is Merseyrail. The ticket office staff were unable to print out the tickets I needed because, as they said, 'we are Merseyrail'. 'Go to West Allerton', they said: the next station along the line which is branded in Merseyrail colours and logo but operated by Northern. Fortunately the cheerful man in the ticket office printed out the tickets with no problem, and said he had been doing it all day on behalf of Parkway.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

An even more bizarre example is a few years ago when the (sole) ticket machine at South Parkway was out of action. The machine was owned and operated by Northern; the station complex, including the bus terminals, is Merseytravel; but the ticket office is Merseyrail. The ticket office staff were unable to print out the tickets I needed because, as they said, 'we are Merseyrail'. 'Go to West Allerton', they said: the next station along the line which is branded in Merseyrail colours and logo but operated by Northern. Fortunately the cheerful man in the ticket office printed out the tickets with no problem, and said he had been doing it all day on behalf of Parkway.

I'd be interested to see reports on what currently happens at the ticket office at South Parkway. On the one hand, Merseyrail (Electrics) now allow collection of online tickets from their ticket offices (https://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/ticket-information/ticket-on-departure/, 'It is also now possible to collect train tickets purchased through other online retailers at any staffed Merseyrail station. If you selected 'Ticket on Departure' as the delivery method when purchasing train tickets online, visit a Merseyrail station ticket office before boarding a train and staff can print out your tickets.'). On the other hand there's quite a firm notice taped to the (Northern) ticket machine telling you to collect your ticket there.

 

[gray1404]

I've heard a recent report on this forum of some one going to collect at LPY booking office but the staff trying to get them to go and use the TVM. If I recall the TVM was out of service.

 

[Red Rover]

What must be unbelievably confusing to non-locals (as well as many locals) is the distinction between Merseytravel and Merseyrail. They use the same branding, and it's only in situations like this that the difference becomes crucial. Even ignoring buses and ferries, the difference between Merseyrail (Electrics) and the City Line is not apparent, at least until you get on a train. City Line stations are even branded as Merseyrail, I think, and not Merseytravel, and yet Merseyrail specific tickets are not valid there. How is any ordinary mortal expected to understand this?

An even more bizarre example is a few years ago when the (sole) ticket machine at South Parkway was out of action. The machine was owned and operated by Northern; the station complex, including the bus terminals, is Merseytravel; but the ticket office is Merseyrail. The ticket office staff were unable to print out the tickets I needed because, as they said, 'we are Merseyrail'. 'Go to West Allerton', they said: the next station along the line which is branded in Merseyrail colours and logo but operated by Northern. Fortunately the cheerful man in the ticket office printed out the tickets with no problem, and said he had been doing it all day on behalf of Parkway.

I think the ticket office is Merseyrail but funded directly by Merseytravel or some positions are, I think the TVM at parkway came from the Airport. I never knew City line are branded as Merseyrail, they shouldn't be.

I'd be interested to see reports on what currently happens at the ticket office at South Parkway. On the one hand, Merseyrail (Electrics) now allow collection of online tickets from their ticket offices (https://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/ticket-information/ticket-on-departure/, 'It is also now possible to collect train tickets purchased through other online retailers at any staffed Merseyrail station. If you selected 'Ticket on Departure' as the delivery method when purchasing train tickets online, visit a Merseyrail station ticket office before boarding a train and staff can print out your tickets.'). On the other hand there's quite a firm notice taped to the (Northern) ticket machine telling you to collect your ticket there.

Can collect from both I'd presume, TOD is done from star at all Merseyrail ticket offices and the TVM can still issue them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the ticket office is Merseyrail but funded directly by Merseytravel or some positions are, I think the TVM at parkway came from the Airport. I never knew City line are branded as Merseyrail, they shouldn't be.

They traditionally were but have moved away from it, though there's still old branding left. They even had liveried units in the 90s.

 

[Red Rover]

I'm planning to do another LDR next month through Southport. The camera will be switched on and recording next time!



What benefit is that to anyone? You recording someone who isn't rude yet maybe in need of training doesn't need recording just maybe a polite note their customer services? After all aren't we all on the same side?

 

[urbophile]

They traditionally were but have moved away from it, though there's still old branding left. They even had liveried units in the 90s.

It will be interesting to see how Broad Green is branded after its refit (which it might even have had, it's a while since I've been). But unless I'm misremembering I could swear that the platform name-boards on the City Line have exactly the same style*, down to the 'Merseyrail" lettering underneath the station name. I think that is true of Newton le Willows which has been updated fairly recently. (*though some might use the attractive but non-standard typeface for the station name which maybe Northern use but isn't Merseyrail house style)