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MPV weed spraying train

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ATW Alex 101

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Today at Capenhurst an MPV weed sprayer passed spraying its stuff and after it went huge mist of it went onto the platform and it smelt horrible and quit chemically rancid.

I'm just wondering what they use for the weedkiller and is it highly toxic? It's unlikely it's toxic as they are sending it through stations but you don't know if you dont ask.

Cheers

[youtube]M_5n8BOamLo[/youtube]
 
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fgwrich

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Today at Capenhurst an MPV weed sprayer passed spraying its stuff and after it went huge mist of it went onto the platform and it smelt horrible and quit chemically rancid.

I'm just wondering what they use for the weedkiller and is it highly toxic? It's unlikely it's toxic as they are sending it through stations but you don't know if you dont ask.

Cheers

As it's October - That would probably be a MPV either doing Water Jetting or Sandite. As for what's in either, can't tell / dont know.
 

DarloRich

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Today at Capenhurst an MPV weed sprayer passed spraying its stuff and after it went huge mist of it went onto the platform and it smelt horrible and quit chemically rancid.

I'm just wondering what they use for the weedkiller and is it highly toxic? It's unlikely it's toxic as they are sending it through stations but you don't know if you dont ask.

Cheers

it is highly unlikely to be a weedkiller in October! It could be Sandite or more likely water from the water cannon.
 

ATW Alex 101

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It was quite a misty spray
I put the video on youtube

[youtube]watch?v=M_5n8BOamLo[/youtube]

What is the sandite used for and whats it's purpose. Also if its water whats it's purpose?
 

W230

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Sandite is used to improve low rail adhesion. It is a gloopy chemical mix that is applied to the railhead, usually at night by a Sandite train.

Water jetting is used for the same reason. This involves high pressure jets spraying water directly onto the railhead to clean any grime off the rails. The main cause is those naughty leaves on the line (always a problem as we enter autumn). Over active flange greasers can also cause low adhesion.

The leaves get mashed up by the steel wheels on the steel rails. It often gets stuck round the 'tyre' of the wheel and leads to problems starting or stopping trains (such as at stations) and can also cause flat spots on the wheels. These flat spots in turn lead to an uncomfortable ride. The wheels have to be turned on a lathe to remove the flatspots, a costly and I imagine time consuing process.

I genuinely had no idea that low rail adhesion (caused by leaves on the line, overactive greasers or whatever) was such a problem on the railway until I started working there myself - it always sounded like a comedy excuse in the BR days! :oops:
 

John55

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It was quite a misty spray
I put the video on youtube

[youtube]watch?v=M_5n8BOamLo[/youtube]

What is the sandite used for and whats it's purpose. Also if its water whats it's purpose?

The water spray washes contaminants off the rail head and the sandite is a adhesive substance containing abrasive material which enables the wheels to grip the rail and avoid slipping on acceleration or braking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandite
 

DarloRich

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That video looks very much like a water cannon in action not sandite.

The water cannon is used more than Sandite these days.
 

BestWestern

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Just to answer your question - though we have now established it wasn't a weedkiller - the weedkilling spray is designed to be non-toxic, however any staff who encounter one lineside are advised to avoid contact with it anyway. I'm fairly certain weedkillers are required to cease spraying when passing through station platforms.
 

pendolino

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That video looks very much like a water cannon in action not sandite.

The water cannon is used more than Sandite these days.

It's probably doing both. MPVs like that are 'modular', the modules (the boxes/tanks on the MPV) have different functions, e.g., a water tank, jetting module, sandite module, de-icing module (for third rail). Certainly all the MPVs I've seen in operation today (and there have been quite a few today- NR have been busy!) have been jetting the railhead then laying sandite - the sandite is visible on the railhead, particularly once it's dried, and there's a definite rumbling sound until a few trains have passed over the treated rails. Not sure what the forecast is, but if it's predicted to be a cold night then most likely they will have been laying de-icer on the 3rd rail too.

Funnily enough, driving the first train following an RHTT before the rail/sandite has had a chance to dry off a bit can be quite difficult - the railhead can be quite slippery making it difficult to take power without wheelslip, requiring a gradual increase in power and maybe a bit of hand-notching.

As for weedkiller, I think it's mostly glyphosate (i.e., Roundup, as available in the garden centre) used these days which is fairly benign (for humans at least) - most of the residual herbicides that were commonly used (e.g., diuron, simazine) have been banned/withdrawn or are frowned upon for their persistency in the environment.

edit: a quick google suggests NR may be using Pistol, made by Bayer, which is a 'non-hazardous' formulation of glyphosate + diflufenican (a residual persistent for up to 6 months). But glyphosate is only effective on actively growing plants so is rarely used at this time of year when plants are beginning to senesce.
 
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ainsworth74

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I don't think the railways dislike the passengers that much.

I don't know, some policies and particularly one comment by some higher up in ATOC would suggest that we're not a popular bunch. And besides everyone knows the main problem with running the railway efficiently is the passengers!
 

-HarleyD-

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I don't know, some policies and particularly one comment by some higher up in ATOC would suggest that we're not a popular bunch. And besides everyone knows the main problem with running the railway efficiently is the passengers!

lol this is very true, if it weren't for the "Self loading freight" there would be far fewer delays.

Back on topic, I always remember the sound of the first train through the station after the sandite train had been through. Horrible crunching sound akin to crushing sea salt in a pestle and mortar.

I can never recall the MPV spraying while passing through stations in "weedkiller season". That was left to the Network Rail workers with backpack mounted sprayers walking the track.
 

pendolino

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I can never recall the MPV spraying while passing through stations in "weedkiller season". That was left to the Network Rail workers with backpack mounted sprayers walking the track.

It's still done with rail vehicles - during the spraying season, the WON had a notice with instructions what to do if you're on or near the line and the weedkilling train approach (basically, make yourself visible so they could turn the spray off!). Don't know if this was an MPV or something else though. And I've seen pictures of recent spraying done (presumably under possession) with a road-rail Unimog and a huge boom, spraying the very steep-sided cutting around Woldingham.

Chipman used to operate the weedkilling train I think - not sure they still work for NR, but the company is still around (now called Nomix Enviro) selling CDA sprayers and stem injection equipment.

But yes you're right, a lot of spraying is still done on foot with a knapsack as it's often the only feasible means.

edit: just re-read your post, and realised you meant the track passing through stations, not weedkiller application in general.
 

ATW Alex 101

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Thanks for the reply's people. I now know that it was not weedkiller. It still smelt quite rancid and chemical like.

Can people actually see the video that I embedded as I cant :/
 

MCR247

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In the first post, yes, although not the other one
 
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