Multiple tickets on a route? (St Albans-Farringdon)

[Mrdini]

Hullo all,

Having recently found out that since for my situation it actually works out cheaper to buy singles than season tickets (due to my Disabled railcard), I've been buying them. So I was idly playing with brfares.com & found an even cheaper fare that I wasn't sure would be allowable so I thought I'd check before I buy!

I have the following:-
DIS - Disabled Railcard
FDM - Freedom Pass

In the past, I bought the following...
1 single SAC-WHP (St Albans - West Hamstead TL)
1 single ELS-SAC (Elstree & Borehamwood - St Albans)
Works out to £9.70
This is because of FCC's restriction that a freedom pass can't be used on the ELS-WHP leg in the AM. Also, for some reason, ticket offices tend to take _forever_ to grasp this concept & to issue tickets

However, brfares.com website threw up the below (which hopefully should be easier)
1 return SAC-ELS
1 single ELS-WHP
Works out to £8.80 - wahey!
So effectively on a single journey from SAC to ZFD, I'd be using three tickets(!). But hopefully also easier for ticket offices to go "Ah, I see. Ok. *tap tap*"

Is this a problem? Is there a better way to purchase in bulk perhaps?

 

[John @ home]

Is this a problem?

At present your single St Albans - West Hampstead Thameslink may be used by any train. If you replace this with a combination of return St Albans - Elstree and single Elstree - West Hampstead Thameslink, then on the St Albans - West Hampstead Thameslink leg you are limited to using trains which stop at Elstree.

EDIT I've just noticed that your journey is actually St Albans - Farringdon, not St Albans - West Hampstead Thameslink. Presumably, you are taking advantage of the extended availability of your Freedom Pass on interavailable routes such as West Hampstead Thameslink - Farringdon.

Where can a Freedom Pass be used on National Rail services?

First Capital Connect: From 09:30 plus valid any time on all services between Finsbury Park and Kings Cross/Moorgate and between West Hampstead Thameslink and Elephant & Castle/London Bridge.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/railcards-discounts/freedom.html

If that is so, then it has been reported on this forum that a Freedom Pass is treated as a Season Ticket. Using a combination of a Season Ticket and one or more other tickets, NRCoC Condition 19(c) allows you to travel by a train which does not call at a station where you change from one ticket to another.

 

[Mrdini]

Er? Not to doubt your word on this but citation needed please

To the best of my knowledge, on the FCC/Thameslink route, trains do not need to stop at West Hampstead TL in order for a SAC-WHP + Freedom Pass combo to be valid. As a result, I would've thought trains would not need to stop at Elstree in order for a SAC-ELS & ELS-WHP combo to be valid...

 

[RJ]

So your journey is as follows;

St Albans to West Hampstead Thameslink (AM)
West Hampstead Thameslink to St Albans (PM)

If you wanted to travel on a fast train going to West Hampstead, you would want to use the following ticket combination;

St Albans to Boundary Zone 6 -> Anytime Day Return -> £6.10
Zone 6 NR to Underground Zones 2-6 -> Anytime Day Single -> £3.50

However, if you are happy to use a train that stops at Elstree on your way to West Hampstead, your combination for £8.80 would be valid.

Er? Not to doubt your word on this but citation needed please

To the best of my knowledge, on the FCC/Thameslink route, trains do not need to stop at West Hampstead TL in order for a SAC-WHP + Freedom Pass combo to be valid. As a result, I would've thought trains would not need to stop at Elstree in order for a SAC-ELS & ELS-WHP combo to be valid...

Could you clarify what journey you are actually making? Not much point in keeping secrets if you're not actually going to West Hampstead, as we won't be able to offer you the appropriate advice!

 

[Mrdini]

Apologies to both, I see where I went wrong.

I normally travel from St Albans from/to London terminals (usually Farrington but sometimes Kings Cross).

Hope that clarifies!

 

[clagmonster]

Does the freedom pass count as a season for the purposes of Condition 19? I think that the answer is yes if it is not issued "on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority". So who is the pass issued on behalf of?

 

[RJ]

Apologies to both, I see where I went wrong.

I normally travel from St Albans from/to London terminals (usually Farrington but sometimes Kings Cross).

Hope that clarifies!

Ok, why do you buy a ticket to West Hampstead? Is it because the train you take into London passes West Hampstead after 09:30, or some other reason?

 

[John @ home]

why do you buy a ticket to West Hampstead?

See my edit to post #2 above.

 

[Mrdini]

Ah! So season tickets can be used in combo with regular tickets on non-stopping trains, but not 2 regular tickets together?

Oh well! Thanks for the advice all - nice idea while it lasted!

 

[John @ home]

Ah! So season tickets can be used in combo with regular tickets on non-stopping trains, but not 2 regular tickets together?

My reading of NRCoC Condition 19(c) is that one (and only one) Season Ticket may be used on non-stopping trains in combination with one, two or many other tickets. So your proposed combination of singles or returns, plus your Freedom Pass, would be valid for a St Albans - Farringdon journey on a train which did not call at Elstree.

Your proposed combination of single or return tickets, on their own, would not be valid for a St Albans - West Hampstead Thameslink journey on a train which did not call at Elstree.

 

[island]

Apologies to both, I see where I went wrong.

I normally travel from St Albans from/to London terminals (usually Farrington but sometimes Kings Cross).

Hope that clarifies!

Farringdon isn't a London terminal, for what it's worth.

 

[kieron]

So who is the pass issued on behalf of?

It is issued by local councils. I don't know how TOCs treat the ticket, though.

Travelling via Watford would be cheaper again, but it would be significantly slower.

 

[John @ home]

A Freedom Pass is issued on behalf of Transport for London, which is neither a passenger transport executive nor a local authority.

 

[kieron]

Perhaps it is. I've never seen one; I was just relying on what TfL put on their web site about it.

 

[34D]

It is issued by local councils. I don't know how TOCs treat the ticket, though.

Travelling via Watford would be cheaper again, but it would be significantly slower.

Don't you mean LONDON COUNCILS.

A Freedom Pass is issued on behalf of Transport for London, which is neither a passenger transport executive nor a local authority.

Though we have had this debate before, and there are opinions and phenomena to support the counter-argument.

I agree that FCC and the other TOCs treat the freedom pass as though it constitutes as a season ticket under 19c, though.

 

[theblackwatch]

Can I remind people to make thread titles understandable and not use codes to describe stations in them please. Whilst some people on here may have memorised the three figres abbreviations for every station, the majority of members have not! I have amended the thread title.