New film: "The Railway Children Return".

[D6130]

Has anyone else seen this film yet? I watched it a few days ago at our local independent cinema and - while the photography was stunning and the railway interest mediocre - the main gist of the story seems to be highlighting racism in the American army in the 1940s. Of course I realise that this new film is a modern development of Elizabeth Nesbit's classic Edwardian childrens' story - the main item of continuity being Jenny Agutter's appearance as the grandmother - but I can't help feeling that this new film is really an undercover educational programme (not that I disagree with the sentiments expressed).

 

[Merthyr Imp]

I thought it was rather poor. Jenny Agutter's character seemed to be nothing more than a token link to the earlier film as she was a largely irrelevant character.

The evacuation of the children from a city to the countryside was a fair enough storyline except for being set in 1944 (I assumed prior to D-Day), but although I haven't really studied the history of it so am open to correction, as far as I'm aware the only such evacuations taking place at that time were from areas affected by V1 attacks which were London and the south east. Yet the children were being evacuated from Manchester.

I suppose the real period of evacuations earlier in the war wouldn't have allowed for the presence of American troops, so this all seemed rather contrived to me.

I imagine there may have been racism in the American Army at the time, and nothing wrong with highlighting that, but I did think the involvement of the American MPs in harassing the civilians who were associating with the black soldiers a bit over the top and possibly far-fetched.

Again, I haven't researched this, but I do wonder just how many black generals there were in the US army in World War2 - just had a quick a look it appears there was ONE. Must have been him then!

On railway matters, it was surprising how little activity was taking place in Oakworth goods yard - apart from kids fooling about.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The plot is loosely based on real life events in Bamber Bridge near Preston in June 1943.

Battle of Bamber Bridge

The people of Bamber Bridge supported the black troops, and when US commanders demanded a colour bar in the town, all three pubs in the town reportedly posted "black Troops Only" signs.

 

[Gloster]

There was undoubtedly a lot of harassment of black GIs by American MPs, at least in part due to the number who came from the Deep South. Harassment of civilians seems to have been less common, although it did happen, at least in part due to the MPs believing that they had similar powers to those that they had in the US. There were cases of local civilians joining in with black GIs against white GIs and MPs at various places around the country. Nevil Shute’s novel The Chequer Board, which I have mentioned on another thread, deals with a similar situation in a small Cornish town. In addition to Bamber Bridge, I have seen Lancaster, Leicester and Wrexham mentioned as having had severe disturbances.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Kingclere , Hants


On 5 October 1944, 10 black American soldiers belonging to a US Army engineering support group based at Sydmonton Court nearby, broke bounds to visit The Swan public house, but were ordered back by two MPs. On their return to base, the soldiers broke into the armoury, then returned to the village and laid siege to The Crown public house, where the two MPs were drinking. Both MPs were killed, as was the pub landlady.[10]

​

 

[Trestrol]

Yes lots of documented similar instances just not taught in schools. There are accounts of white GIs being banned by locals from pubs because of their attitude. There are also instances of British soldiers standing up for none white members of their regiment against white GIs. We never had a segregated military although progression was hard for them. Up until the second World War I think we were a lot more tolerant of people from other countries. American media and films I think did a lot of harm.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes lots of documented similar instances just not taught in schools. There are accounts of white GIs being banned by locals from pubs because of their attitude. There are also instances of British soldiers standing up for none white members of their regiment against white GIs. We never had a segregated military although progression was hard for them. Up until the second World War I think we were a lot more tolerant of people from other countries. American media and films I think did a lot of harm.

There was a phrase associated with US servicemen in both Britain and Australia which speaks volumes: "Overpaid, Oversexed, Over here". There were incidents of unrest caused at least in part by overzealous American MPs, and by the regular troops lording it over their British and Australian allies. Then there was the segregated set-up of the US forces at the time, something that seemed rather unpalatable to the British and Australian servicemen even in the 1940s.

The handful of reviews I've seen of the new film seem to suggest that it was a good idea but poorly executed... which is a common issue with modern productions. In particular one reviewer suggested that the railway was little more than set-dressing, and played very little part in the plot of the film.

 

[John Luxton]

Yes lots of documented similar instances just not taught in schools. There are accounts of white GIs being banned by locals from pubs because of their attitude. There are also instances of British soldiers standing up for none white members of their regiment against white GIs. We never had a segregated military although progression was hard for them. Up until the second World War I think we were a lot more tolerant of people from other countries. American media and films I think did a lot of harm.

One of the episodes of Foyle's War covered issues and attitudes regarding Black GIs and the difference in attitudes between the British and Americans over the issues.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

One of the episodes of Foyle's War covered issues and attitudes regarding Black GIs and the difference in attitudes between the British and Americans over the issues.

Correct. The episode in question (Series 6 Episode 2) was entitled "Killing Time" and was set in the summer of 1945.

 

[Trestrol]

The problem is we are now clubbed in with America where race relations are concerned. Slavery was wrong but we didn't start it. It was the Dutch and Portuguese. We banned it long before anyone else, we lobbied other countries to stop. We even blockaded Africa with the Royal Navy to stop other countries slave ships. This is never taught in schools so the young think we followed the same path as America.

 

[ComUtoR]

The problem is we are now clubbed in with America where race relations are concerned. Slavery was wrong but we didn't start it. It was the Dutch and Portuguese. We banned it long before anyone else, we lobbied other countries to stop. We even blockaded Africa with the Royal Navy to stop other countries slave ships. This is never taught in schools so the young think we followed the same path as America.

The British were deeply involved in the slave trade.

 

[John Luxton]

The problem is we are now clubbed in with America where race relations are concerned. Slavery was wrong but we didn't start it. It was the Dutch and Portuguese. We banned it long before anyone else, we lobbied other countries to stop. We even blockaded Africa with the Royal Navy to stop other countries slave ships. This is never taught in schools so the young think we followed the same path as America.

The other point which is overlooked or deliberately airbrushed is the part played by native African traders who colluded with the Imperial powers to sell their own people into slavery.

No one would deny the evils of slavery but the trouble is it is still going on now and worse in plain sight. There is a case currently being reported on in Wales in which a couple are on trial for holding a Latvian man.

My view is we can't undo the past and I am not sure we should even apologise for it but what we should be doing is ensuring modern day slavery isn't happening. Too many cases reported from British courts in recent years of immigrants held in economic chains also the odd case of exploited vulnerable UK citizens who have been exploited as well.

 

[Trestrol]

The British were deeply involved in the slave trade.

I never said we weren't but we did see the error of our ways and tried to influence others to do the same.

 

[ComUtoR]

I never said we weren't but we did see the error of our ways and tried to influence others to do the same.

What also happened and was the higher influence for our decisions was that the money dropped out of the trade. Not so much as seeing the error of our ways but financially influenced.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The whole of year 8 history at my high school was focused on the foundation and spread of Islam. For sure that's an important part of history, but I'm sure there are more relevant things that would have been more useful. For example anyone who didn't take History beyond year 9 (such as myself, because I chose to do both French and German) never formally learned anything about how and why either of the World Wars started, nor anything about colonialism or the transatlantic slave trade. Anything I've learned about those things has come from my own reading or from YouTube documentaries.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

For example anyone who didn't take History beyond year 9 (such as myself, because I chose to do both French and German) never formally learned anything about how and why either of the World Wars started, nor anything about colonialism or the transatlantic slave trade.

In my case, and those of my grammar schoolmates who chose to do geography instead of history at age 13 we never learned about anything past approx. 1610.

 

[Gloster]

In my case, and those of my grammar schoolmates who chose to do geography instead of history at age 13 we never learned about anything past approx. 1610.

By the early 1970s we had advanced a bit. By the age of thirteen we had reached 1815, although we only really started at 1485. This was despite having a more enlightened/mildly eccentric history master who spent a whole year on Anson’s voyage around the world and another on Wellington’s campaign in Portugal and Spain. What I did learn from that is that there is an awful lot more to history (and other subjects) than you get with the usual quick skim: not a bad thing to get a pre-teen to understand.

 

[Mikw]

I watched it and really enjoyed. Yes, it's grittier than the original, but still very charming. Acting was good too and some very nice callbacks to the classic.

Interstingly, the cinema i went to see it in was quite full, but mostly pensioners and not that many children

 

[Benters]

Saw the trailer for the sequel on Facebook. It seems that they've got the rolling stock for the period right this time. ie a Black 5 and a 4F in LMS livery, plus a USATC S160. The S160 wouldn't have hung around for long, though it would have been shipped off to mainland Europe with the advent of D-Day. The coaches behind the Black 5 seem to have time-travelled, they look suspiciously like BR Mk1s. Still, no ex-GWR Pannier Tanks in ficticious brown livery in evidence here, unlike the original!

 

[John Luxton]

Interstingly, the cinema i went to see it in was quite full, but mostly pensioners and not that many children

They were probably children in 1970! Perhaps it is not connecting with the younger generation but appealing out of nostalgia reasons to those of us of a certain generation. I don't go to cinemas, but will make a point of getting a copy on DVD to see how it compares.

 

[Taunton]

no ex-GWR Pannier Tanks in fictitious brown livery in evidence here, unlike the original!

But the whole book is a fiction, hence the fictitious railway company name (and thus livery) of the original 1968 film. It wasn't stated in the book where it was geographically. It did start off with them living in Lewisham, but that's also where author E Nesbit lived. The concept was lightly based on the Dreyfuss Affair, contemporary at the time (which happened in France), and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle also used this as a background veneer in writing The Lost Special, another fiction with significant railway content.

I can actually remember as a small child the last incarnation on BBC TV, black and white, around 1960, which used a Southern T9 in the opening titles, but I don't recall any train at all in the action, which may have been wholly studio-based. I do still remember the classicaL flute intro - anybody know the composer/title?

 

[AY1975]

Has anyone else seen this film yet? I watched it a few days ago at our local independent cinema and - while the photography was stunning and the railway interest mediocre - the main gist of the story seems to be highlighting racism in the American army in the 1940s. Of course I realise that this new film is a modern development of Elizabeth Nesbit's classic Edwardian childrens' story - the main item of continuity being Jenny Agutter's appearance as the grandmother - but I can't help feeling that this new film is really an undercover educational programme (not that I disagree with the sentiments expressed).

I saw it just over a week ago at my local independent cinema, on what I think was the last day that it was on there, and I really enjoyed it too.

Saw the trailer for the sequel on Facebook. It seems that they've got the rolling stock for the period right this time. ie a Black 5 and a 4F in LMS livery, plus a USATC S160. The S160 wouldn't have hung around for long, though it would have been shipped off to mainland Europe with the advent of D-Day. The coaches behind the Black 5 seem to have time-travelled, they look suspiciously like BR Mk1s. Still, no ex-GWR Pannier Tanks in ficticious brown livery in evidence here, unlike the original!

Yes, there were some of the KWVR's non-corridor Mark 1s in it, which obviously weren't built until after WW2.

But the whole book is a fiction, hence the fictitious railway company name (and thus livery) of the original 1968 film. It wasn't stated in the book where it was geographically.

I had always assumed that the original novel was set on the KWVR because that was where the original film (and the latest film) was recorded, but I read somewhere that the original story was actually set in the Chinley/New Mills area on the Hope Valley route between Sheffield and Manchester.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

I can actually remember as a small child the last incarnation on BBC TV, black and white, around 1960, which used a Southern T9 in the opening titles, but I don't recall any train at all in the action, which may have been wholly studio-based. I do still remember the classicaL flute intro - anybody know the composer/title?

I can just about remember the series (first shown in 1957).

There was also a BBC TV series in 1968, also filmed on the Keighley & Worth Valley, and also featuring Jenny Agutter as Bobbie. Perks was played by Gordon Gostelow and the Old Gentleman was Joseph O'Conor. I seem to remember it was shown in the Sunday tea time slot.

 

[Taunton]

I can just about remember the series (first shown in 1957).

There was also a BBC TV series in 1968, also filmed on the Keighley & Worth Valley, and also featuring Jenny Agutter as Bobbie. Perks was played by Gordon Gostelow and the Old Gentleman was Joseph O'Conor. I seem to remember it was shown in the Sunday tea time slot.

This is all available on YouTube. A black & white TV production, done shortly before the more famous film. Here's episode 1 :

It has the same flute intro/outro classical music as the 1960 one I questioned above. KWVR pioneer loco J72 69023 appears the most, in its apple green NER livery, and there are other odd scenes in Haworth sheds and elsewhere.

 

[AlterEgo]

A very poor film in my view. Confusing premise, contrived and incredulous plot, preachy. That spoiled a solid first hour. Also not sure what Jenny Agutter was doing in it with such a small part.

I was the youngest person in the cinema by some distance!

 

[Taunton]

I can actually remember as a small child the last incarnation on BBC TV, black and white, around 1960, which used a Southern T9 in the opening titles, but I don't recall any train at all in the action, which may have been wholly studio-based. I do still remember the classicaL flute intro - anybody know the composer/title?

Just answering my own question (bad form supposedly), discovered the music the BBC used in I think all their television versions of the Railway Children, intro, outro and incidental, was Grieg's Symphonic Dance Number 2. Probably a favourite of the producer. Even multiple commentators to this YouTube clip remark on how it recalls watching The Railway Children on television long ago. Here :

 

[Western Sunset]

In my case, and those of my grammar schoolmates who chose to do geography instead of history at age 13 we never learned about anything past approx. 1610.

Same at my grammar school; had to choose between history and geography. Ironically, with no history qualifications, I ended up as the senior local studies librarian for a large local authority responsible for all their historic stuff...