New rail study suggests reintroducing direct train service between Great Yarmouth and

[Trainfan344]

http://www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk/news/new_rail_study_suggests_reintroducing_direct_train_service_between_great_yarmouth_and_lowestoft_1_3903200

A study into improving Anglia’s rail network suggests travelling times could be significantly reduced between many stations in our region, but would cost around £1bn to implement

Key proposals in the Network Rail study include:

• Reintroducing a direct service between Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft

Just seen this, and I don't see the point in the Great yarmouth to Lowestoft bit, when there are 8 buses an hour between the two towns already!

The document, called “Improving Connectivity”, suggests that trains between Ipswich and Norwich should be slowed down by nine minutes to improve links at other stations and that trains on the main line should stop at more stations.

I can't see this being very popular with Norwich commuters who are already trying to speed up the service...

Full document can be found here: www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/long-term-planning-process/improving-connectivity/

 

[Busaholic]

This is the same problem as we have in Cornwall and Devon, two or more pressure groups arguing for mutually exclusive things: in this area, it can lead to paralysis and nothing been done on the grounds that 'they can't agree among themselves' but perhaps Suffolk and Norfolk will fare better.

 

[asylumxl]

From what I have read so far, the gist of it is to have connections and to hold those connections. Which happened more routinely pre privatisation.

 

[yorksrob]

Just goes to show what a mistake closure between Lowestoft and Yarmouth South Town in 1970 was in the first place.

 

[dk1]

Just goes to show what a mistake closure between Lowestoft and Yarmouth South Town in 1970 was in the first place.

Was very obvious they wanted the land & much of the route for future road building.

 

[yorksrob]

Was very obvious they wanted the land & much of the route for future road building.

That doesn't surprise me of the era.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Just goes to show what a mistake closure between Lowestoft and Yarmouth South Town in 1970 was in the first place.

Was very obvious they wanted the land & much of the route for future road building.

Wasn't familiar with this route when first mentioned, but now after looking at Google sat views can fully appreciate both your views. Presume the bypass road is built on top of the former alignment coming South from Great Yarmouth, and what a shame, it looked such a straight and direct formation aswell, ah well, yet another case of utter shortsightedness!

 

[oliMw]

The report also states the possibility of introducing a direct Norwich - London Kings Cross Service which I think is an interesting concept however it overall seems like a good idea providing a second link to London with supposedly quicker journeys of 1 hour 46 minutes and a second direct link to the capital away from the GEML in times of disruption.

 

[Trainfan344]

My only concern with that is what rolling stock would be used?

 

[GB]

Is there a direct rail link between Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft or would the train need to reverse at Reedham?

 

[oliMw]

Is there a direct rail link between Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft or would the train need to reverse at Reedham?

There is currently not a direct link from Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft however the report suggests reinstating the triangle at Reedham to allow direct services between Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft

 

[GB]

Thanks. Seems like a waste of money imo.

 

[oliMw]

I have just read the report and will try to sum up the improvements around the Norwich area.

For services around the 'Norwich hub' the improvements would be.

Bittern Line: Improvements to connectivity to GEML services to London reducing overall journey times between intermediate stations and London. Prospect for half hourly service between Norwich and Sheringham requiring infrastructure improvements

Wherry Lines: A new service between Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth through construction of a new triangle at Reedham and new Reedham station. This would provide a half hourly service between Great Yarmouth and Norwich with one direct train via Acle per hour and access to Norwich using Great Yarmouth - Lowestoft train with a Cross Platform change of train for the Lowestoft - Norwich train providing the other half hourly service. Improved connections for services to London. This would require improvements to infrastructure.

Breckland Line: One express service from Norwich to London Kings Cross via Cambridge providing Norwich with a new connection to London and an express service from Norwich to Cambridge taking 55 minutes. Continuation of the existing Norwich to Peterborough & Beyond service. Continuation of the existing Norwich to Cambridge service with the possibility of a new fast service from Norwich to Stansted Airport. This would require electrification of the Breckland and infrastructure upgrades.

GEML: Continuation of the half hourly service from Norwich to London Liverpool Street with improved connectivity to services throughout the line however a slower journey time between Norwich - Ipswich and London.

Overall the entire concept seems like a clever idea however whether it suits to the attitude of customers is an important question as many people, including me, are cautious of changing trains however efficient the connection times. The requirement of more stock is also a major problem at the current time with many services struggling to cope with the existing stock and in order for these services to take effect new/cascaded stock will be required. The plans for the GEML are also contrary to the existing Norwich in 90 service which of course will cause conflict in opinion. Finally and arguably the most important is the total cost of these improvements with £1 billion of investment a heavy amount. I like the concept however I am skeptical that these plans will ever come to fruition.

This is how I have interpreted the report so I am sure that there is the possibility that I have misunderstood some parts of the report and stand to be corrected. The improvements I have covered are, of course, a small part of the overall plan set out in the report.

 

[yorksrob]

Wasn't familiar with this route when first mentioned, but now after looking at Google sat views can fully appreciate both your views. Presume the bypass road is built on top of the former alignment coming South from Great Yarmouth, and what a shame, it looked such a straight and direct formation aswell, ah well, yet another case of utter shortsightedness!

Indeed. The A12 takes up pretty much the whole formation down to Gorleston.

 

[evergreenadam]

Not sure there is capacity on the ECML for an hourly King's Cross to Norwich service given that the two per hour fast KX-Cambridge services will both in the near future project to King's Lynn. Unless they intend for a 4 coach EMU to attach to one of the King's Lynn-KX services at Cambridge thereby avoiding the need for an extra path through Welwyn.

 

[Class 170101]

I think there is about three threads around this forum discussing the Network Rail report that these articles have come from.

(Mods any chance of a merger please?)

 

[andrew bell]

Indeed. The A12 takes up pretty much the whole formation down to Gorleston.

Yer and 1 of the stations on that route was a 2 minute walk from my house

 

[yorksrob]

Yer and 1 of the stations on that route was a 2 minute walk from my house

Goodness. That would have been handy for you then !

 

[anti-pacer]

Indeed. The A12 takes up pretty much the whole formation down to Gorleston.

As someone who spent 4 happy years in Gorleston, living literally the first house behind what was then the Station Hotel, and a stones throw from the old railway line which became the A12 relief road shortly after my family moving there, I feel reasonably qualified to speak on transport matters affecting that part of the world.

As I pointed out, the old railway line became a road so the most direct route from Yarmouth to Lowestoft can't be resurrected. I therefore see absolutely no attraction of travelling via Reedham, when, as someone pointed out, there are 8 buses an hour between the two towns.

When I lived there it was the 601/2/3 buses (from memory), all of which took ages due to their routes via Hopton and Corton, so maybe then a rail alternative would have been attractive. Bus travel has come on leaps and bounds in that area in recent years, and the X1 has certainly blown any benefit of a direct rail route from Yarmouth to Lowestoft out of the water. If faster links between the two towns are needed, then maybe divert some of the X1's via the A12 Gorleston Relief Road.

I do like the sound of a Norwich-King's Cross route, and anything that links Norfolk to Stansted Airport would, in my opinion, do well. Don't forget this is an area that lacks decent air links.

I think reducing journey times on the GEML should be the key priority for the economic benefit of Norfolk and Suffolk, as well as passengers, and once that's sorted, the two I've mentioned above. Trains for Yarmouth to Lowestoft aren't needed and will be money wasted.

 

[Mark62]

Just goes to show what a mistake closure between Lowestoft and Yarmouth South Town in 1970 was in the first place.

Here here. It was yet another indiscrimate and needless closure

 

[anti-pacer]

Here here. It was yet another indiscrimate and needless closure

But not one that needs to be replaced with a totally indirect and now needless service, given the bus offerings via the A12.

 

[yorksrob]

But not one that needs to be replaced with a totally indirect and now needless service, given the bus offerings via the A12.

Well, I didn't actually offer an opinion on the proposed curve at Acle, however I can't say as I'm convinced that a bus service can be a direct equivalent to the train. frequencies may be higher, but speeds are generally lower, timetables more relaxed and travelling conditions more cramped.

It's good that bus connections in the area have come on in leaps and bounds, but is undoubtedly because an extremely short sighted generation of politicians, planners and railway officials connived to ensure that the area had no other choice.

 

[anti-pacer]

Well, I didn't actually offer an opinion on the proposed curve at Acle, however I can't say as I'm convinced that a bus service can be a direct equivalent to the train. frequencies may be higher, but speeds are generally lower, timetables more relaxed and travelling conditions more cramped.

It's good that bus connections in the area have come on in leaps and bounds, but is undoubtedly because an extremely short sighted generation of politicians, planners and railway officials connived to ensure that the area had no other choice.

I agree Yorksrob, and if the proposed route between Yarmouth and Lowestoft was direct, I'd be behind it. However that's not possible, so the only option is via Reedham, and I think public transport users in that area wouldn't use it.

Like I said, if (and it's a big if) faster links between the two towns are needed, the most direct and also quickest way would be an express bus travelling via the A12 and missing out Gorleston. A train via Reedham couldn't beat that in terms of journey time.

 

[yorksrob]

I agree Yorksrob, and if the proposed route between Yarmouth and Lowestoft was direct, I'd be behind it. However that's not possible, so the only option is via Reedham, and I think public transport users in that area wouldn't use it.

Like I said, if (and it's a big if) faster links between the two towns are needed, the most direct and also quickest way would be an express bus travelling via the A12 and missing out Gorleston. A train via Reedham couldn't beat that in terms of journey time.

Given that Reedham (from memory) is pretty close to the junction, I wonder whether it would be worth trialling a service reversing there for a couple of years. That way they could assess demand for such a service before committing to any capital expenditure on a curve.

 

[steamybrian]

Here here. It was yet another indiscrimate and needless closure

In 1970 life was different then and rail travel was out of favour and in decline.
I travelled over the line in August 1969 and the two car DMU was well filled.
Like many coastal lines for about three months of the year the trains were well patronised but the other 9 months of the year it was uneconomic.
In 1969 the line had been singled, all stations were unmanned, the line was being rundown with little marketing. The whole service was worked by a one 2 car DMU unit shuttle accordingly the service was infrequent.
The line closed around the same time as Kings Lynn to Hunstanton which was a similar situation for which now a train service would be well used.

 

[yorksrob]

In 1970 life was different then and rail travel was out of favour and in decline. I
I travelled over the line in August 1969 and the two car DMU was well filled.
Like many coastal lines for about three months of the year the trains were well patronised but the other 9 months of the year it was uneconomic.
In 1969 the line had been singled, all stations were unmanned, the line was being rundown with little marketing. The whole service was worked by a one 2 car DMU unit shuttle accordingly the service was infrequent.
The line closed around the same time as Kings Lynn to Hunstanton which was a similar situation for which now a train service would be well used.

Given the level of settlement in the area, and the obvious utility of the line to the local tourist industry, not to mention that the route was the most direct between London and Yarmouth, I don't think we can excuse the short sightedness of those involved in closure simply because of the age. Seems to be one of the worst cases of the closure first ideology that infested the railway and government establishment at the time.

 

[Gathursty]

Would Berney Arms derive any benefit if these plans came to fruition?

 

[306024]

Would Berney Arms derive any benefit if these plans came to fruition?

Funniest post of the year so far

This report uses East Anglia as an example of how a timetable could be constructed using the principles employed in say Holland or Switzerland, but fails to actually show an hourly sample timetable pattern. It is pure theory, most of the ideas appear simply unaffordable. Sorry but not worth getting too excited about in my view.

 

[WatcherZero]

Didn't model a peak timetable but did model an offpeak timetable for the whole region. Page 28 of the report also has a service frequency map.

 

[306024]

Indeed, but a lot more detail is required than that shown to prove a timetable actually works in terms of pathing, platform working and turnround times, and that assumes all that expensive infrastructure is built. I'll remain sceptical.