No "online" fares from Lichfield to Burton-on-Trent ?

[martinsh]

I've been trying to look up fares from Lichfield Trent Valley to Burton-on-Trent, and having great difficulty ! A semi random selection of websites (Trainline, West Midlands, Cross Country) are all saying "no fares available". Trainsplit is similar, quoting £12.40 return splitting at Tamworth (but not saving anything). I've tried changing times and days/dates, to no effect.

However, if I go to the station (I was in Stafford when I tried), the (Avanti) machines will quite happily quote a range of fares, including £9.60 anytime day return. [ I also actually bought a single ticket in the opposite direction from Burton station last week - I think it was about £8 ]

What is going on ?

 

[Miken]

I've just tried TPE app on my phone. Shows either a £9.60 anytime day return or off peak anytime day return for £7. Designated as multiple operators change at Tamworth.

 

[jfollows]

Is this because the "any permitted" fares between Lichfield and Tamworth are valid via Birmingham, and - by extension because Burton on Trent isn't a routing point in its own right - the same thing applies for tickets between Lichfield and Burton-on-Trent? There are then "not via Birmingham" fares available for both of these station pairs, which are clearly the sensible ones to use.

Perhaps stemming from the time there were only occasional trains between Lichfield and Tamworth?

The fares look strange to the eye, but possibly also are too hard for some ticket sales "apps" to be able to unscramble?

So for example, Lichfield-Burton anytime day return "any permitted" is £26.70 and valid - I think - via Birmingham, but the anytime day return "not via Birmingham" is £9.60 and the one most people are going to want to buy I suggest. See, for example https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=LTV&dest=BUT

Single Burton-Lichfield "not via Birmingham" £9.50 any time but £6.70 if not departing after 04:29 and before 09:30 or between 15:30 and 18:15.

EDIT Routing guide Lichfield-Tamworth allows map WM which clearly shows the only route as via Birmingham. The routing guide also allows map TL, so the Trent Valley Direct route is also allowed, although it would also be for a number of reasons (shortest route, direct trains). So "any permitted " tickets are allowed via Birmingham. Burton is just an add-on to this because it will use Tamworth as its routing point for determining valid routes.

 

[Merseysider]

That’s a weird one. Not sure what’s going on there.

I don’t know what the bus fares are but the X12 does the journey in 20 minutes - may be worth considering.

 

[ChrisC]

That’s a weird one. Not sure what’s going on there.

I don’t know what the bus fares are but the X12 does the journey in 20 minutes - may be worth considering.

It’s only 15 miles at the most from Lichfield to Burton on Trent and so £9.60 for a Day Return is quite a high price. The bus will definitely be cheaper because even the countywide multi operator bus ticket, The Knot, is only £7 and that’s valid throughout Staffordshire.

 

[SickyNicky]

The "shortest route" according to the data is direct:

BUT,LTV,10.79

Of course, there are rarely (ever?) any direct trains between the two, but that explains why via Tamworth fails the shortest route test.

 

[JB_B]

I was thinking along these lines...

Burton is associated with Lichfield Trent valley routeing point so there are no mapped routes.

The data used by journey planners gives the distance as 10.79m.

Usable passenger services require a change at Tamworth - total distance 19.23m.

No mapped routes, not direct, over 3m longer than shortest route means that journey planners are unable to find services for which the £9.60 ticket is valid.

However, GWR mixing deck will find and offer this ticket for journeys via Tamworth ( including where you specify services and get reservations for relevant legs.) I'm not sure how that works.

 

[SickyNicky]

Yes, I agree with that analysis. It sounds like the GWR site is getting this wrong. That might mean other interesting anomalies are available from it.

 

[TheDavibob]

Definitely might be missing something, but surely the shortest route should be "the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services between the stations shown on your Ticket;" as per the NRCOT (via the forums Ticketing guide), which makes the data wrong, as outside of Engineering works there is no direct service (and even then, I'm not sure there's much stopping at either of the Lichfields and Burton).

Either way, get the X12 (it's a nice enough bus, and buses on dual carriageways are fun).

 

[SickyNicky]

Definitely might be missing something, but surely the shortest route should be "the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services between the stations shown on your Ticket;" as per the NRCOT (via the forums Ticketing guide), which makes the data wrong, as outside of Engineering works there is no direct service (and even then, I'm not sure there's much stopping at either of the Lichfields and Burton).

You're absolutely right, and the ticket is clearly valid via Tamworth. But journey planners shouldn't be allowing it.

There are a number of data quality issues surrounding the electronic mileage data though. Another that springs to mind is Cwmbran to Severn Tunnel Junction, which is defined as CWM,STJ,15.81 despite there being no scheduled passenger services on the Maindee North to Maindee East connection.

 

[SargeNpton]

Suggest you try doing a Lichfield Burton on Trent enquiry again tomorrow and see if the result is any different.

 

[martinsh]

Suggest you try doing a Lichfield Burton on Trent enquiry again tomorrow and see if the result is any different.

Which website do you want me to use ?

PS I don't want to use the bus as I'm going to a beer festival !

 

[SargeNpton]

Which website do you want me to use ?

PS I don't want to use the bus as I'm going to a beer festival !

Any and all websites - they all take the same source data.

 

[JB_B]

Suggest you try doing a Lichfield Burton on Trent enquiry again tomorrow and see if the result is any different.

Removing the Lichfield-Burton link seems to have had the desired effect. It's good to see the rail industry bringing the distance data a little closer to reality rather than going the other way. There's still a lot of rubbish in there.

 

[martinsh]

Yeah. that's sorted now. Thanks