Northern Connect

[Gwr12345]

I've seen discussion of this in the past and wondered what it actually was planned to be? Before my time, and there seems to be very little info of it? And a slightly more local question to me, what would it have meant for the North East? Thanks (I hope this is the right forum as it is a piece of railway history!)

 

[SteveM70]

There was a thread a few years ago about this and what actually happened. For some reason I can’t quite the relevant bit directly, but I can copy it:


Interesting to look back at what was planned at the beginning of the Arriva franchise. Their website said that "Northern Connect will be a new network of 12 long distance routes. To be introduced in 2019, it will provide faster connections across Northern England to Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle and Sheffield, including brand new services from Bradford to Manchester Airport and Lincoln to Leeds."

So what's happened?

1. Manchester Airport to Barrow (new build dmu) - in operation
2. Manchester Airport to Blackpool/Windermere (new build emu) - in operation but Windermere is new build DMU
3. Manchester Airport to Liverpool via Warrington Central (new build dmu) - in operation
4. Chester to Leeds via Warrington BQ, MCV, Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - in operation
5. Liverpool to Leeds via MCV, Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - not happened
6. Manchester Airport to Leeds via Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - not happened, runs from Victoria only
7. Leeds to Lincoln via Barnsley and Sheffield (new build dmu) - in operation
8. Sheffield to Scarborough via Doncaster and Hull (new build dmu) - in operation but using class 170 units
9. Middlesbrough to Newcastle (refurb. 158) - not happened, this was to have been a service via Durham and Stockton, not the coast line
10. Newcastle to Carlisle (refurbished 158) - in operation (actually from Morpeth)
11. York to Blackpool via Leeds and Calder Valley (new build dmu) - in operation
12. Bradford to Nottingham via Leeds, Wakefield Westgate and Sheffield (new build dmu) - in operation, but not from Bradford, and via Barnsley

Route 3 is a part replacement for TPE, which will no longer use the CLC route
Route 4 ditto between Warrington and Leeds - BUT route 4 is an all-stations "stopper" between Leeds and Todmorden!

Eight of the 12 services are therefore operating as planned, two of them not with the intended type of unit (one because of cancelled electrification). One other is running in a modified form while three have not been implemented, two because of capacity problems through Manchester.

 

[Iskra]

Some of the North East Northern Connect stuff has actually been delivered- by the Tyne Valley semi-fast service alongside the stopper and the new ‘fast’ service around the coast via Hartlepool. There might have been some talk of a Darlington-Newcastle service too, I can’t remember if these do run but very infrequently or if they never got off the ground. Basically Northern Connect was just some slightly faster Northern services with slightly better rolling stock.

There was a thread a few years ago about this and what actually happened. For some reason I can’t quite the relevant bit directly, but I can copy it:


Interesting to look back at what was planned at the beginning of the Arriva franchise. Their website said that "Northern Connect will be a new network of 12 long distance routes. To be introduced in 2019, it will provide faster connections across Northern England to Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle and Sheffield, including brand new services from Bradford to Manchester Airport and Lincoln to Leeds."

So what's happened?

1. Manchester Airport to Barrow (new build dmu) - in operation
2. Manchester Airport to Blackpool/Windermere (new build emu) - in operation but Windermere is new build DMU
3. Manchester Airport to Liverpool via Warrington Central (new build dmu) - in operation
4. Chester to Leeds via Warrington BQ, MCV, Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - in operation
5. Liverpool to Leeds via MCV, Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - not happened
6. Manchester Airport to Leeds via Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - not happened, runs from Victoria only
7. Leeds to Lincoln via Barnsley and Sheffield (new build dmu) - in operation
8. Sheffield to Scarborough via Doncaster and Hull (new build dmu) - in operation but using class 170 units
9. Middlesbrough to Newcastle (refurb. 158) - not happened, this was to have been a service via Durham and Stockton, not the coast line
10. Newcastle to Carlisle (refurbished 158) - in operation (actually from Morpeth)
11. York to Blackpool via Leeds and Calder Valley (new build dmu) - in operation
12. Bradford to Nottingham via Leeds, Wakefield Westgate and Sheffield (new build dmu) - in operation, but not from Bradford, and via Barnsley

Route 3 is a part replacement for TPE, which will no longer use the CLC route
Route 4 ditto between Warrington and Leeds - BUT route 4 is an all-stations "stopper" between Leeds and Todmorden!

Eight of the 12 services are therefore operating as planned, two of them not with the intended type of unit (one because of cancelled electrification). One other is running in a modified form while three have not been implemented, two because of capacity problems through Manchester.

A nice summary, but I’d just like to point out that number 7 hasn’t quite come to fruition as the Lincoln Northern Connect service wasn’t meant to be all stops between Lincoln and Sheffield as it is now. There was meant to be a ‘stopper’ DMU service which would have allowed the current service to run ‘semi-fast’ providing faster end to end journeys.

And Number 12 hasn’t come to fruition either, as it was meant to be an additional service. We have certainly not gained a train between Leeds and Sheffield.

 

[Halish Railway]

1. Manchester Airport to Barrow (new build dmu) - in operation
2. Manchester Airport to Blackpool/Windermere (new build emu) - in operation but Windermere is new build DMU
3. Manchester Airport to Liverpool via Warrington Central (new build dmu) - in operation
4. Chester to Leeds via Warrington BQ, MCV, Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - in operation
5. Liverpool to Leeds via MCV, Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - not happened
6. Manchester Airport to Leeds via Calder Valley and Bradford (new build dmu) - not happened, runs from Victoria only
7. Leeds to Lincoln via Barnsley and Sheffield (new build dmu) - in operation
8. Sheffield to Scarborough via Doncaster and Hull (new build dmu) - in operation but using class 170 units
9. Middlesbrough to Newcastle (refurb. 158) - not happened, this was to have been a service via Durham and Stockton, not the coast line
10. Newcastle to Carlisle (refurbished 158) - in operation (actually from Morpeth)
11. York to Blackpool via Leeds and Calder Valley (new build dmu) - in operation
12. Bradford to Nottingham via Leeds, Wakefield Westgate and Sheffield (new build dmu) - in operation, but not from Bradford, and via Barnsley

Route 3 is a part replacement for TPE, which will no longer use the CLC route
Route 4 ditto between Warrington and Leeds - BUT route 4 is an all-stations "stopper" between Leeds and Todmorden!

I believe that the Calder Valley to Manchester Airport service was supposed to start from Bradford Interchange, rather than Leeds. Also, as part of the introduction of the Chester to Leeds service, the Mytholmroyd and Sowerby Bridge stops were to be served by the Blackpool North to York service, but I think it’s better that they’re served by the Chester to Leeds service. When it first started that service didn’t call at Low Moor.

 

[Discuss223]

2. Bradford to Nottingham via Leeds, Wakefield Westgate and Sheffield (new build dmu) - in operation, but not from Bradford, and via Barnsley

Northern (in various ownerships) have been running services from Nottingham to Leeds for quite some time.

Certainly since Serco~Abellio days.

It used to be Express via Barnsley services.

One would start at Nottingham, leaving Sheffield at XX:18 and the other would start at Sheffield, leaving at XX:50.

The XX:50 departure was axed around 10 years ago. It was then re-introduced, but starting from Lincoln, to replace the Lincoln-Adwick services (the Adwick services were shortened to start and terminate at Sheffield).



It's a shame not to have the joined up Wakefield Kirkgate-Leeds-Bradford aspect of the operations.

Grand Central do provide a (limited) service from Kirkgate to Bradford though.

I suspect platforming issues at Leeds was the reason this element of Northern Connect did not happen.

 

[Halish Railway]

One would start at Nottingham, leaving Sheffield at XX:18 and the other would start at Sheffield, leaving at XX:50.

The XX:50 departure was axed around 10 years ago. It was then re-introduced, but starting from Lincoln, to replace the Lincoln-Adwick services (the Adwick services were shortened to start and terminate at Sheffield).

It’s been 2tph semi-fast between Leeds and Sheffield via Barnsley for as long as I can remember.

When Leeds to Lincoln was first introduced it was initially supplemented by a Sheffield to Reford stopper, later extended to Gainsborough Central. Then the pandemic happened and the Gainsborough stopper was never reintroduced so the Leeds to Lincoln service had to pick up all the local stations.

 

[Bevan Price]

No. 3 was replaced by diverting TPE Cleethorpes - Manchester to Liverpool via CLC, instead of service Manchester Airport.

 

[LowLevel]

It’s been 2tph semi-fast between Leeds and Sheffield via Barnsley for as long as I can remember.

When Leeds to Lincoln was first introduced it was initially supplemented by a Sheffield to Reford stopper, later extended to Gainsborough Central. Then the pandemic happened and the Gainsborough stopper was never reintroduced so the Leeds to Lincoln service had to pick up all the local stations.

I am fairly sure the "Express" Sheffield - Leeds via Barnsley twice an hour was introduced with the start of the Nottingham service in 2008 or so, using ex Central Trains/Wessex Trains class 158s on paper but often with the likes of 142s and 150s deputising. Prior to that the fast Sheffield to Leeds was provided by Cross Country with MML in the morning and evening with Northern services being rather slow on the routes.

 

[xotGD]

I am fairly sure the "Express" Sheffield - Leeds via Barnsley twice an hour was introduced with the start of the Nottingham service in 2008 or so, using ex Central Trains/Wessex Trains class 158s on paper but often with the likes of 142s and 150s deputising. Prior to that the fast Sheffield to Leeds was provided by Cross Country with MML in the morning and evening with Northern services being rather slow on the routes.

Going further back, a lack of DMUs meant that Nottingham-Leeds services were formed of sets of Mark 1s with a Peak on the front for a while.

 

[Whisky Papa]

I am fairly sure the "Express" Sheffield - Leeds via Barnsley twice an hour was introduced with the start of the Nottingham service in 2008 or so, using ex Central Trains/Wessex Trains class 158s on paper but often with the likes of 142s and 150s deputising. Prior to that the fast Sheffield to Leeds was provided by Cross Country with MML in the morning and evening with Northern services being rather slow on the routes.

That is indeed my recollection. I was in Northern's train planning department in Manchester during 2008 (randomly generating units!) and the news from our York colleagues was that the expected extension of the hourly Leeds - Barnsley - Sheffield semi-fasts to Nottingham was being expanded to incorporate an additional hourly service between Leeds and Sheffield, as the timetable simply didn't work well with just an extension of the existing trains. External funding had to be sought for this, an organisation called Yorkshire Forward rings a bell, if anybody else recalls?

One other aspect not previously mentioned above was the intended increase in station opening hours on the Connect routes, along with the suggestion of offering catering facilities (although I was told vending machines may qualify for the latter). I think Todmorden and Hebden Bridge were proposed to open until 2200, as against 2030 currently.

As far as I am aware no hours were ever extended, and of course, only a few years later many of the same stations were threatened with a massive reduction in opening hours!

 

[LowLevel]

That is indeed my recollection. I was in Northern's train planning department in Manchester during 2008 (randomly generating units!) and the news from our York colleagues was that the expected extension of the hourly Leeds - Barnsley - Sheffield semi-fasts to Nottingham was being expanded to incorporate an additional hourly service between Leeds and Sheffield, as the timetable simply didn;t work well with just an extension of the existing trains. External funding had to be sought for this, an organisation called Yorkshire Forward rings a bell, if anybody else recalls?

The whole thing was a massive mess if I remember rightly tied into several different issues - Midland Mainline originally were planning to operate London - Nottingham - Sheffield - Leeds as an extension of the London - Nottingham "fast" service of the time and procured the 7 x 9 car class 222s with this in mind.

The Strategic Rail Authority (remember them!) decided this wouldn't work for whatever reason after the trains had been built and the big 222s ended up parked up until someone decided they could enter traffic on normal 222 diagrams with everything including export to Ireland on the cards.

The SRA therefore went for the cheaper option of harvesting a load of battered 158s made surplus at Central Trains (via short term lease to TPE and FGW) by an influx of 170s and at Great Western by some slightly less battered 158s from TPE and getting Northern to run a second Nottingham - Sheffield service per hour mingled in with Yorkshire Forward (was this something to do with the former South Yorkshire PTE and a development agency or something?) stumping up some of the cash.

Meanwhile Central Trains had been supplying duff passenger figures having never really bothered collecting passenger counts leaving the new EMT trying to run Nottingham - Sheffield - Liverpool with mostly 2 car trains and tins of sardines on MD Tim Shoveller's desk from disgruntled commuters.

The same era Northern were forced to withdraw the stock saved from the Oldham Loop metrolink conversion despite being permanently short of trains and Great Western parked a load of stock up at Eastleigh (much of which ended up at EMT in a state of dereliction) and ironically the former Northern 142s ended up at Exeter.

Those few years were a right mare for Regional railway network on reflection and it's hard to imagine the shiny new (albeit lacking in areas) 195s and 331s against that backdrop!

 

[Mat17]

It’s been 2tph semi-fast between Leeds and Sheffield via Barnsley for as long as I can remember.

When Leeds to Lincoln was first introduced it was initially supplemented by a Sheffield to Reford stopper, later extended to Gainsborough Central. Then the pandemic happened and the Gainsborough stopper was never reintroduced so the Leeds to Lincoln service had to pick up all the local stations.

In the early 2000s there were no expresses via Barnsley. There were two stoppers; one went from Sheffield to Leeds via Castleford, the other from Sheffield to Wakefield Kirkgate. Things certainly have improved!

 

[YorksLad12]

It's a shame not to have the joined up Wakefield Kirkgate-Leeds-Bradford aspect of the operations.

Grand Central do provide a (limited) service from Kirkgate to Bradford though.

I suspect platforming issues at Leeds was the reason this element of Northern Connect did not happen.

Nope (at least, not entirely). Bradford-Leeds-Wakefield W-Sheffield-Nottingham was going to be the route, to speed up Leeds-Nottingham journeys. Only the Leeds-Sheffield element is due to start, in December 20254... a full 10 years after it was first announced.

In the early 2000s there were no expresses via Barnsley. There were two stoppers; one went from Sheffield to Leeds via Castleford, the other from Sheffield to Wakefield Kirkgate. Things certainly have improved!

Aye. First came the Leeds-Kirkgate-Barnsley-Sheffield semi-fast, which took over a stopping service path from Kirkgate to Sheffield. Then it got doubled up, and extended to Nottingham hourly. Units ran Sheffield-Leeds-Sheffield-Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds-Sheffield.

Then the other semi-fast was extended to Lincoln, so units now run Sheffield-Leeds-Sheffield-Lincoln-Sheffield-Leeds-Sheffield-Nottingham-Sheffield.

From Leeds, it's generally faster to take an LNER service to Doncaster and change to EMR's Doncaster-Peterborough via Lincoln service (if you time it right).

 

[xotGD]

From Leeds, it's generally faster to take an LNER service to Doncaster and change to EMR's Doncaster-Peterborough via Lincoln service (if you time it right).

But the direct service is handy for those using a Northern Delay Repay complimentary ticket.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

I am fairly sure the "Express" Sheffield - Leeds via Barnsley twice an hour was introduced with the start of the Nottingham service in 2008 or so, using ex Central Trains/Wessex Trains class 158s on paper but often with the likes of 142s and 150s deputising. Prior to that the fast Sheffield to Leeds was provided by Cross Country with MML in the morning and evening with Northern services being rather slow on the routes.

IIRC the Sheffield to Leeds via Barnsley express came first and was followed a little later by the Nottingham.
Before 2008 there was a Leeds-Barnsley-Sheffield stopper and a Wakefield Kirkgate- Barnsley -Sheffield stopper, as others have mentioned. There was also a Northern- operated Leeds-Wakefield Westgate -Meadowhall-Sheffield express via the Dearne Valley which ran a few times per day, and an odd Sheffield to Chesterfield local. Again IIRC this was an extension of the Leeds via Barnsley stopper and operated in the peaks and a journey at lunch time.
142s and 144s covered the Sheffield to Leeds via Barnsley express at times of stress but didn't operate to Nottingham as they were apparently not compatible with the axle counters around the Nottingham area.