Northern Leeds-Nottingham Services

[jfowkes]

I often get the train to/from Nottingham/Langley Mill.

In the Langley Mill-Nottingham direction, the train is fairly consistently 5-10 late at LGM.

Today for instance: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61338/2019-11-07/detailed

It left Leeds on time, but slowly accrues delay through the journey. I'm guessing it had to wait at Meadowhall as it was already late, adding more delay.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows what the cause of this is? I'm not complaining, just curious.

 

[darloscott]

Looks to me like it got caught behind the late running Knottingley in front of it whilst that called at Woodlesford, then it has to make an extra peak call at Normanton with not a lot of extra time given - compare it with the 1738 to Lincoln, gets just two extra minutes to Wakey K - which then puts it late at Meadowhall and losing its path into Sheffield, which can snowball further. Luckily it gets 20 mins turn at Nottingham so should be back on time going the other way.

 

[Glenn1969]

There have also been weather related issues in the Meadowhall area today which forced them to cancel the planned Christmas Live lights switch on event. Suppose that can also have been a factor?

 

[Tractor37]

We can be late out of Leeds if TransPennine is late we then get held at Meadowhall for the Cross Country service to pass through before us so can often be 5 or 6 late leaving which then means we’re late all the way down to Nottingham. Quick loo and brew break before we return to be held at Dore for TransPennine to run from the hope valley and late again.

 

[jfowkes]

Thanks all! So just lots of opportunity for delay to creep in, that's pretty much what I'd guessed. I hope (for everyone) that there isn't too much disruption today, the fields between Ilkeston and Langley Mill looked very inundated as we went past.

 

[jfowkes]

Sorry for bumping a thread, but I wanted to ask about this service again.

The following is all "according to RTT", so usual caveats apply.

Yesterday (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61336/2019-11-26/detailed), the service was 3L leaving Sheffield, but 9L at Nottingham.

There was nothing ahead of it to slow it down (the service ahead of it was 1L13 Liverpool-Norwich, 15 minutes before).

So here, it wasn't picking up this extra 6 minutes of delay from other services, it just happened. This seems to happen every day - the timetable from Sheffield to Nottingham just don't match what the train actually does.

Is there a reason why this discrepancy might have happened? Again, I'm not complaining, just curious.

 

[louis97]

There was nothing ahead of it to slow it down (the service ahead of it was 1L13 Liverpool-Norwich, 15 minutes before).

1V64 1307 Edinburgh-Plymouth was ahead of it and was the reason for the delay approaching Chesterfield as 1V64 was in the platform.

 

[edwin_m]

Saw a 195 arrive at Nottingham about 0935 this morning, out of service.

 

[jfowkes]

1V64 1307 Edinburgh-Plymouth was ahead of it and was the reason for the delay approaching Chesterfield as 1V64 was in the platform.

Ah ok I didn't think to look north of Clay Cross. Still, it lost 2m from there to Nottingham.

And today it lost 4m from Sheffield with a clear run (I checked properly this time, I think).

 

[louis97]

Ah ok I didn't think to look north of Clay Cross. Still, it lost 2m from there to Nottingham.

And today it lost 4m from Sheffield with a clear run (I checked properly this time, I think).

Looks like dwell overruns, insufficient dwell times for peak time. 158s with end doors won't help.

 

[jfowkes]

Looks like dwell overruns, insufficient dwell times for peak time. 158s with end doors won't help.

Ah, maybe this indicates something as well - is it timed as a 158? Because very often it's actually a 150/153/155/156 - is the performance difference enough there to lose a few minutes?

 

[louis97]

Ah, maybe this indicates something as well - is it timed as a 158? Because very often it's actually a 150/153/155/156 - is the performance difference enough there to lose a few minutes?

They are timed as 158. Definitely over some of the longer stretches between stations you could potentially lose time with a 75mph 15x. The train you refer to on both occasions was a 158. I looked up a train which was a 150 during the day and it seemed to drop a minute or so between Chesterfield and Alfreton.

 

[jfowkes]

That's interesting thanks! I await the arrival of the 195s with great anticipation! Seen them a couple of times at Nottingham already, hopefully they'll be in service soon.

 

[Jamesrob637]

They are timed as 158. Definitely over some of the longer stretches between stations you could potentially lose time with a 75mph 15x. The train you refer to on both occasions was a 158. I looked up a train which was a 150 during the day and it seemed to drop a minute or so between Chesterfield and Alfreton.

I caught one the other day which was a 150 and on time at Meadowhall... well it would have been but for a delayed TPE in front of it... maybe weekend timings allow more slack?

 

[talltim]

They lose even more time to Nottingham when they are a Pacer!
Recently they seem to be on time on the approach to Sheffield from the North, but get held up by a XC train that uses the same platform and tends to be a few minutes late. Added to this the Liverpool-Nottingham also tends to run 10-15 minutes late and there’s the EMR London service that leaves on the hour and you’ve got 4 trains trying to exit Sheffield southbound at pretty much the same time, with the Northern service at the back of the queue

 

[raetiamann]

It has been suggested the Leeds-Nottm service will go over to class its from the December timetable change, though I haven't seen confirmation from Northern.

 

[PHILIPE]

They lose even more time to Nottingham when they are a Pacer!
Recently they seem to be on time on the approach to Sheffield from the North, but get held up by a XC train that uses the same platform and tends to be a few minutes late. Added to this the Liverpool-Nottingham also tends to run 10-15 minutes late and there’s the EMR London service that leaves on the hour and you’ve got 4 trains trying to exit Sheffield southbound at pretty much the same time, with the Northern service at the back of the queue

A Pacer never goes to Nottingham as they are not cleared beyond Chesterfield

 

[louis97]

I caught one the other day which was a 150 and on time at Meadowhall... well it would have been but for a delayed TPE in front of it... maybe weekend timings allow more slack?

No running above 75mph from Leeds via Kirkgate and Barnsley to Meadowhall, so would expect no issues between Leeds and Meadowhall, maybe even onto Sheffield.

 

[johnnychips]

Bizarrely tonight at Sheffield was advertised a Rail Replacement Bus to Chesterfield calling at Dronfield from stand E6 from the bus station at 2135; also a train to Nottingham at 2137 calling at Dronfield and Chesterfield.

 

[talltim]

A Pacer never goes to Nottingham as they are not cleared beyond Chesterfield

Exactly

 

[chessie]

The 0625 from Chesterfield to Leeds is often a Pacer but this service commences from here and as noted above they are not cleared to go south of Chesterfield.