NS (Netherlands) contactless without known card number

[AdamWW]

I see that NS (in the Netherlands) now allows contactless cards to be used to tap in and out to pay for second class fares.

And that there is an app one can use to see what charges have been applied.

However....does anyone know if this can be done if one has a card (e.g. Chase Bank) where the actual card number is top secret and not available to the owner?

I think that in principle I could use an app to read the number via NFC, but I'm not sure how much I would trust anything like that I found to download.

 

[cool110]

You don't use the card number at all to register. They include a transaction number at the end of the merchant name, you enter that and the amount charged after your first journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

However....does anyone know if this can be done if one has a card (e.g. Chase Bank) where the actual card number is top secret and not available to the owner?

Quite aside from this Chase thing being a very silly setup compared to having a physical and virtual card(s) clearly shown as such as Monzo do, I doubt it's top secret, I'd imagine they will tell you if you phone them up and ask.

 

[Mcv378]

Your card number will be available in the app.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Your card number will be available in the app.

The card number in the app for Chase is a virtual card, it is not the card number of the actual physical card. This has caused people buying rail tickets for collection a load of issues, as they don't state that this is the case. It's a beyond-ridiculous and completely unnecessary policy that no other bank I know of follows.

However post 2 seems to confirm this doesn't matter anyway.

 

[DanielB]

You don't use the card number at all to register. They include a transaction number at the end of the merchant name, you enter that and the amount charged after your first journey.

There is one exception however: OVpay now also supports age related discount in bus, tram and metro (34% off for 65+ and 12-18. For this you need to register your card in the OVpay app and upload a photo.
Registration happens by entering your card number, but alternatively can and be done via the NLOV number on your bank statement (when the card has been used in the previous month) or by entering a card number and paying € 0,01 for verification.

 

[AdamWW]

Quite aside from this Chase thing being a very silly setup compared to having a physical and virtual card(s) clearly shown as such as Monzo do, I doubt it's top secret, I'd imagine they will tell you if you phone them up and ask.

I'd have thought that it they wanted people to easily find out they'd make it available on the app. Certainly in the discussions I've read on the problems it causes nobody has said they just phoned up and got the number.

You don't use the card number at all to register. They include a transaction number at the end of the merchant name, you enter that and the amount charged after your first journey.

Ah how sensible! Thanks. This forum is a very useful resource.

I bought a chipkaart on my last trip to the Netherlands, when contactless was only just starting to be implemented. I don't think I need it now.

 

[alholmes]

I just had a look at the OVpay app. For a new credit card, it seems you do require the card number to register it. However for a debit card you are then given the option of ‘Debit card’ or ‘Virtual debit card’. choose Virtual Debit card and that allows you to input an NLOV payment reference.

I was on holiday in the Netherlands last month, so got rid of my OV chipkaart - was easy to get the balance refunded to a UK bank account.

Using UK credit cards to tap in & out was fine, though I did find with one of my cards that most nights when the payment processing was carried out that one (or more) journeys from the previous day would be declined by my bank, and I’d have to pay manually through the app in order to continue using that card to travel. A bit frustrating - suspect it’s because each trip was charged separately so multiple transactions going through the account triggered one of the card issuer’s fraud alerts (unlike contactless in London which aggregates all journeys to a single card charge overnight).

 

[DanielB]

I just had a look at the OVpay app. For a new credit card, it seems you do require the card number to register it. However for a debit card you are then given the option of ‘Debit card’ or ‘Virtual debit card’. choose Virtual Debit card and that allows you to input an NLOV payment reference.

See my previous post, entering a card number is only possible with a 16 digit card number. For other cards you'd need the NLOV reference number or a verification payment when the card was not used in public transport before.

Using UK credit cards to tap in & out was fine, though I did find with one of my cards that most nights when the payment processing was carried out that one (or more) journeys from the previous day would be declined by my bank, and I’d have to pay manually through the app in order to continue using that card to travel. A bit frustrating - suspect it’s because each trip was charged separately so multiple transactions going through the account triggered one of the card issuer’s fraud alerts (unlike contactless in London which aggregates all journeys to a single card charge overnight).

Transactions should be aggregated, but especially with NS trains (where the card readers have a wired connection to the backend) they appear to be processed immediately.
For buses, trams and metro transaction data is transferred overnight via wifi at the depot, so that will be debited in one transaction.

 

[alholmes]

Transactions should be aggregated, but especially with NS trains (where the card readers have a wired connection to the backend) they appear to be processed immediately.
For buses, trams and metro transaction data is transferred overnight via wifi at the depot, so that will be debited in one transaction.

Based on my OVpay data and card statement that’s not how it worked. For my journeys on 17th September I had 4 payments:
1. €10.20 for 1 NS train - this payment failed overnight, so I completed it through the app the following morning - has a different description on my credit card statement.
2. €10.03 for an NS train and a GVB tram. The train journey was earlier than the one in payment 1; the tram was later than the train in payment 1.
3. €8.80 for 1 NS journey
4. €12.10 for 1 NS and 2 GVB trams

Despite all that, still a good system.

 

[zero]

There are a few "safe" ways to get the card number of the physical chase card, I can't remember exactly but one way might have been to do a TfL transaction whereupon the number may be revealed by the chase app

 

[johncrossley]

As mentioned, the lack of card number isn't a problem with the Chase card, because the card number isn't needed. However, I've used the Chase card for OV Pay and the reference starting NLOV isn't shown in the transaction list, because of the fancy layout



However, they did give me the NLOV code when I asked customer support for it. So at least you don't have the problem that you have when using the Chase card on buses outside London. You can ask Chase for the card number until you are blue in the face but they won't disclose it, unless it is for TfL.

 

[FlyingPotato]

As mentioned, the lack of card number isn't a problem with the Chase card, because the card number isn't needed. However, I've used the Chase card for OV Pay and the reference starting NLOV isn't shown in the transaction list, because of the fancy layout

View attachment 167169

However, they did give me the NLOV code when I asked customer support for it. So at least you don't have the problem that you have when using the Chase card on buses outside London. You can ask Chase for the card number until you are blue in the face but they won't disclose it, unless it is for TfL.

Did you ask OV pay or Chase as I need my NLOV number for an issue with tapping in without meaning to

 

[johncrossley]

Did you ask OV pay or Chase as I need my NLOV number for an issue with tapping in without meaning to

I asked Chase.

 

[FlyingPotato]

I asked Chase.

I asked chase and they couldn't find it
Although this was when the payment was pending

 

[johncrossley]

I asked chase and they couldn't find it
Although this was when the payment was pending

Mine was pending as well.

The moral is not to use Chase for any tap in tap out transactions. Chase are good for the cashback and interest but not for these transactions. I normally use another card for tap in tap out but I forgot on this occasion.

 

[rvdborgt]

As mentioned, the lack of card number isn't a problem with the Chase card, because the card number isn't needed. However, I've used the Chase card for OV Pay and the reference starting NLOV isn't shown in the transaction list, because of the fancy layout

View attachment 167169

I'd call that a bug... they're hiding transaction information from you. Or is it maybe visible if you look at it in a web browser on a pc?

 

[johncrossley]

I'd call that a bug... they're hiding transaction information from you. Or is it maybe visible if you look at it in a web browser on a pc?

Chase is app only and don't have a web interface. There has been a lot of discussion about Chase on other parts of this forum because they are not willing to disclose card numbers, necessary to view transactions on bus company portals. A lot of forum members who shop around for their bank accounts choose Chase because they pay good interest and offer good cashback, but they are a lot of hassle when it comes to contactless transactions on public transport.

 

[AdamWW]

Chase is app only and don't have a web interface. There has been a lot of discussion about Chase on other parts of this forum because they are not willing to disclose card numbers, necessary to view transactions on bus company portals. A lot of forum members who shop around for their bank accounts choose Chase because they pay good interest and offer good cashback, but they are a lot of hassle when it comes to contactless transactions on public transport.

They also have near perfect exchange rates for foreign currency, so other things being equal would the the obvious choice for tap on tap off abroad.

 

[johncrossley]

They also have near perfect exchange rates for foreign currency, so other things being equal would the the obvious choice for tap on tap off abroad.

There are several other cards that also offer fee free foreign transactions, which we used before Chase came along, although Chase still wins because it has 1% cashback too. My policy is to use Chase for everything except for tap in tap out outside London, so I'm using Chase for virtually all transactions anyway.

 

[AdamWW]

There are several other cards that also offer fee free foreign transactions, which we used before Chase came along, although Chase still wins because it has 1% cashback too. My policy is to use Chase for everything except for tap in tap out outside London, so I'm using Chase for virtually all transactions anyway.

Indeed but I don't think I'll bother getting a new card for a few train trips in the Netherlands.

The last one I got started out with good exchange rates and deteriorated over time.

 

[James H]

I used a third party app to obtain my 'real' Chase card number which allowed me to register it for Airtime Rewards etc.

 

[Watershed]

I used a third party app to obtain my 'real' Chase card number which allowed me to register it for Airtime Rewards etc.

Which app was that?

 

[James H]

One of the various Android NFC / card reader apps available in the Play store

 

[johncrossley]

One of the various Android NFC / card reader apps available in the Play store

But you can't get the security number that way. This is not relevant anyway regarding OV Pay as they don't require the card number. But Chase is still problematic because of the stupid formatting used in the app.

 

[FlyingPotato]

Mine was pending as well.

The moral is not to use Chase for any tap in tap out transactions. Chase are good for the cashback and interest but not for these transactions. I normally use another card for tap in tap out but I forgot on this occasion.

I've asked Chase twice now, and they can't find it for me
What exactly did you ask, if you don't mind sharing

 

[johncrossley]

I've asked Chase twice now, and they can't find it for me
What exactly did you ask, if you don't mind sharing

Is there a reference with the OVPay transaction from yesterday? It should start NLOV.

Hi, let me take a look at that for you.

Taking a look, there are no OVPay transactions that have been initiated yesterday. However, I can see a pending £3.98 transaction to OVPay that was done today 03:16. Is this the transaction that you're referring to?

Yes, that is the one

Got that. So that I can best assist you with this, may I know the reason for you requesting this reference?

I need it to view my travel history. See https://zelfregelen.ovpay.nl/reisoverzicht

Thank you. After checking my resources here, I can see a reference number for this transaction that matches what you described. Let me provide this to you below.

NLOVxxxxxxxxxxx

That's great, thanks.

If there's anything else we can help with, or if you have any other questions, we're here to help 24/7. Have a good day.

 

[FlyingPotato]

Is there a reference with the OVPay transaction from yesterday? It should start NLOV.

Hi, let me take a look at that for you.

Taking a look, there are no OVPay transactions that have been initiated yesterday. However, I can see a pending £3.98 transaction to OVPay that was done today 03:16. Is this the transaction that you're referring to?

Yes, that is the one

Got that. So that I can best assist you with this, may I know the reason for you requesting this reference?

I need it to view my travel history. See https://zelfregelen.ovpay.nl/reisoverzicht

Thank you. After checking my resources here, I can see a reference number for this transaction that matches what you described. Let me provide this to you below.

NLOVxxxxxxxxxxx

That's great, thanks.

If there's anything else we can help with, or if you have any other questions, we're here to help 24/7. Have a good day.

Thanks
I did something similar twice and nothing was there but oh well

 

[rvdborgt]

I did something similar twice and nothing was there but oh well

If this is some kind of AI-powered chat, then use the exact same wording as in the successful chat above. Maybe that helps.

 

[FlyingPotato]

If this is some kind of AI-powered chat, then use the exact same wording as in the successful chat above. Maybe that helps.

I'm looking for some extra information regarding a transaction to OV pay, I'm looking for a payment reference number that's supposed to begin with NLOV but I can't find it on the chase app next to my payment, I've been told that chase can find it for me

This is what I asked