Off-Peak fares and changing trains

[Eddy]

Hello all,
I don't live in UK and it will be my first time in UK trains. I have been trying to figure out how the tickets work for some days and finally i decided to buy one but there is something i can't understand.

I plan to go from Birmingham International to London Euston on 5th of November. I planned to buy a single one way ticket. Because of it is saturday, all day is a off peak time, as i understand. As i see the trains before noon are expensive than the trains after noon. So because of it is a off peak day, can i just buy a afternoon ticket and get on a before noon train? What are the consecuences? Also there is a strike that day, do you have any recommendations? Thanks,

 

[island]

Welcome to the forum.

Whilst off-peak tickets on that route are indeed valid for any journey on a Saturday, the cheapest super off-peak ticket (£16.50 single/£26.50 return) is not. For travel to London, it's valid on trains arriving after 1pm, but not on trains departing between 4-7pm.

If you attempt to use a super off-peak ticket at a time that it's not valid, you are liable to pay the price difference to a ticket that would have been valid. There's also a small chance that you would get (improperly) issued a penalty fare or reported for prosecution.

As you correctly noted, 5 November is a strike day. It may be less likely that staff enforce ticket restrictions carefully. You should also check your train operating company's website a day or two before travel to check that the train you intend to take is still running.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We need to know a bit more about exactly what ticket you've purchased and how much you paid for it.

Off Peak and Super Off Peak tickets are flexible tickets and don't usually have restrictions on Saturdays but there are some exceptions and Birmingham International to London is one of them. I suspect you've purchased a Super Off Peak ticket valid on LMR&WMT trains only that cannot be used on any trains timed to arrive at London Euston before 13:00. There is no Saturday restriction on the Off Peak ticket between Birmingham International and London.

There are also Advance tickets (not to be confused with a flexible ticket purchased in advance of travel) that can only be used on the specific train detailed in the itinerary. These are usually cheaper than super off peak and off peak tickets.

As you rightly point out 5th November is a strike day, there will be some trains running between Birmingham and London Euston but they will start later and finish earlier and take longer than normal sue to making more stops en-route.

If you travel at an invalid time with a super off peak ticket you will potentially have to pay an excess fare to convert you ticket to an off peak one. If it's an Advance ticket then you're treated as not having a ticket at all.

 

[Watershed]

Hello all,
I don't live in UK and it will be my first time in UK trains. I have been trying to figure out how the tickets work for some days and finally i decided to buy one but there is something i can't understand.

I plan to go from Birmingham International to London Euston on 5th of November. I planned to buy a single one way ticket. Because of it is saturday, all day is a off peak time, as i understand. As i see the trains before noon are expensive than the trains after noon. So because of it is a off peak day, can i just buy a afternoon ticket and get on a before noon train? What are the consecuences? Also there is a strike that day, do you have any recommendations? Thanks,

Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak tickets aren't tied to one specific train - they are flexible, albeit subject to time restrictions.

Generally, they tend to be valid all day on weekends; however, in this instance, the Super Off-Peak Single from Birmingham International to London Euston that costs £16.50 isn't valid on trains that arrive into London before 13:00.

It's also only valid on the slower services branded as London Northwestern Railway/LNR, which run via Northampton - not the faster Avanti West Coast services.

If you want to arrive in London before 13:00, or use Avanti West Coast services, you'll need to buy a more expensive ticket - either the LNR only Off-Peak Single (£27.50) or the Any Permitted Off-Peak Single (valid on Avanti as well as LNR, £43.10).

As for it being a strike day, in essence this means that there will be a much more limited service in operation, starting up from 07:30 and finishing by 18:30. But there should be one journey per hour between Birmingham International and London Euston from each operator

LNR say on their website that journey planners will be updated to show their strike timetable on Monday 31st, but already have a timetable PDF you can download. Avanti say you will have to wait a little bit longer - I would estimate that timetables will be published on Wednesday 2nd, based on previous history.

 

[30907]

Looking at the LNR strike timetable, if you want to take advantage of their very cheap fare, the first train you can use is at 10.28, changing at Northampton to reach Euston at 13.10.
You don't need to buy this ticket - or any other Offpeak ticket - in advance.

 

[Haywain]

Also there is a strike that day, do you have any recommendations?

Due to the strike the last LNR train with a connection for London will leave Birmingham International at 15:31, and the last Avanti train will probably not be much later than 17:00 at best.

 

[Eddy]

Hello all,
Thank you for detailed answers. I didn't buy any ticket yet.

Avanti does not sell any ticket on its website right now. I think the prices will be suprise when it comes out

The train line says morning tickets starts from 33.67 pound right now, but when i take a look to the west midlands trains website for the same train prices are 27.50 pound.

On the other hand when i look at the pdf which watershed shared in his post. West midlands train timetables on the pdf and website does not match.

I am thinking about waiting until 1st of Nobember for announcements from all train companies to be done.

I hope prices don't hike until that day.Do you recommend me to wait or just buy a west midland train for 27.50 pound?

 

[mangyiscute]

Hello all,
Thank you for detailed answers. I didn't buy any ticket yet.

Avanti does not sell any ticket on its website right now. I think the prices will be suprise when it comes out

The train line says morning tickets starts from 33.67 pound right now, but when i take a look to the west midlands trains website for the same train prices are 27.50 pound.

On the other hand when i look at the pdf which watershed shared in his post. West midlands train timetables on the pdf and website does not match.

I am thinking about waiting until 1st of Nobember for announcements from all train companies to be done.

I hope prices don't hike until that day.Do you recommend me to wait or just buy a west midland train for 27.50 pound?

Currently Avanti are still yet to release timetables - when they do the ticket for their train will be £43.10 for the journey, and it should take around 1h15-1h30 - however, since it is a strike day their services may be very infrequent, so definitely wait to see the timetable.

The trainline charge and extra booking fee, hence why their price is more expensive (although I didn't think it was usually over £6), so I would stick to booking with west midlands - the £27.50 ticket can also be bought at the station, although whether there will be staff to help out on a strike day I am not sure, and ticket machines can be quite confusing the first time you use them.

I would expect that the times don't match since the journey planner is unfortunately not updated yet to show the updated strike day train times, so the pdf is correct.

If you choose to wait, there is no chance that the ticket price can rise - this is whats called a walk up fare, which means that this ticket will always be offered and it cannot sell out, so there is no harm in waiting at the moment to see what avanti publish

 

[plugwash]

this is whats called a walk up fare, which means that this ticket will always be offered and it cannot sell out, so there is no harm in waiting at the moment to see what avanti publish

Unfortunately it's messier than that now.

Currently most Avanti trains are marked as "reservations compulsory" even though reservations aren't being enforced on the ground. So planner based retailers (afaict all online retailers are planner based for at least the outward journey) won't sell tickets for those trains unless they can allocate a reservation. If the only reservation available is first class they will only sell first class tickets!

 

[Eddy]

Looking at the LNR strike timetable, if you want to take advantage of their very cheap fare, the first train you can use is at 10.28, changing at Northampton to reach Euston at 13.10.
You don't need to buy this ticket - or any other Offpeak ticket - in advance.

Thank you very much for your answer. Do you have any information about how much does it cost me, if i don't buy any ticket online and buy the tickets as you mentioned at the stations?

To summarize, as i understand. All Saturday is off peak, but trains that reaches euston after 13.00 are super off peak (according to fares from WMR website).

Also because of the strike, timetable of the ticket selling website and timetable announced pdf does not match yet. But! The train on the pdf that departs from Birmingham International at 10.28 reaches euston with a one train change at northampton arrives as 13.10. So technically that makes that train also super off peak?

Now i am thinking about buying a super off peak ticket for 16.50 pound online and try my chance for that train? What are your toughts?

 

[Watershed]

Thank you very much for your answer. Do you have any information about how much does it cost me, if i don't buy any ticket online and buy the tickets as you mentioned at the stations?

To summarize, as i understand. All Saturday is off peak, but trains that reaches euston after 13.00 are super off peak (according to fares from WMR website).

Also because of the strike, timetable of the ticket selling website and timetable announced pdf does not match yet. But! The train on the pdf that departs from Birmingham International at 10.28 reaches euston with a one train change at northampton arrives as 13.10. So technically that makes that train also super off peak?

Now i am thinking about buying a super off peak ticket for 16.50 pound online and try my chance for that train? What are your toughts?

That's all correct. The times you see in the PDF I've linked to are what LNR plan to run (obviously there may still be some cancellations on the day, but that is the intended service). Those timings aren't yet in journey planners and won't be until tomorrow.

There will also be faster, direct services operated by Avanti (costing £41.40 at most, possibly less if they release Advance tickets), but the timetable has not yet been released, and probably won't be until Wednesday.

You can buy the £16.50 WMT only Super Off-Peak Single now, selecting any WMT itinerary, and this will be valid on the 10:28 from Birmingham International, changing at Northampton.

 

[mangyiscute]

Thank you very much for your answer. Do you have any information about how much does it cost me, if i don't buy any ticket online and buy the tickets as you mentioned at the stations?

Any of the tickets that have been listed can be bought at the station for the same price