opening windows on trains

[martina]

Does anyone know how I can find out if trains from London to Scotland have opening windows either in carriage or in the doors between carriages?

 

[Old Timer]

The only trains of that nature are the High Speed Train sets operated by Cross-Country and partly by East Coast. Then only the door windows can be opened.

All modern trains have fully sealed ventilation systems, and no opening windows/doors.

 

[The_Stig]

I remember getting on an HST from Glasgow to Taunton(?) when I was around 12.

Being an an HST was great, loved it. Unfortunately the Air conditioning in OUR coach wasn't working. Being summer it was terrible and there was nothing we could do, there was a queue at the vestibule areas where people were congregating to cool down lol.

As if that wasn't bad enough a freight train ahead of us failed, twice! That was one long day on the train.

Luckily the return journey was incident free and an absolute joy.

 

[Class 33]

Not a big fan of all these more modern EMU's and DMU's which have no openable windows atall. For one thing you can't hear the engine/motor noise as loud. And it's also nicer to have the windows open on a pleasant day too, rather than air conditioning. Loved the old slam-door trains where you had the doors and windows right next to your seats!

And what's with the carriage windows in the Class 158's. Why are they only openable by the conductors? Why were they not made so that the passengers could easily open them?

 

[Bittern]

The only trains of that nature are the High Speed Train sets operated by Cross-Country and partly by East Coast. Then only the door windows can be opened.

All modern trains have fully sealed ventilation systems, and no opening windows/doors.

Not "all". The 334s have opening windows.

 

[O L Leigh]

You don't need to be opening the windows on a train with A/C. In fact, even where you can please don't.

I have an endless battle with the punters whenever I get a train formed with a Cl317/7. Every time I change ends I have to go through shutting the windows and doors in order to give the A/C a fighting chance to work properly. Otherwise what happens is that the thermostats are tricked into thinking that it's cold and put the heaters on.

Really and honestly, on stock with A/C please leave the ruddy windows alone.

O L Leigh

 

[The_Stig]

Not "all". The 334s have opening windows.

They do not have A/C, thats why.

 

[ainsworth74]

And what's with the carriage windows in the Class 158's. Why are they only openable by the conductors? Why were they not made so that the passengers could easily open them?

It would reduce the effectivness of the air-con. So only the guard can use them if the air-con fails or is not keeping the train cool enough anyway. At least thats my understanding.

Personally I don't know why more trains aren't like the 158s in having hopper windows that can be opened by the guard incase the air-con fails!

Edit: Beaten to the punch by OL, at least I was right though!

 

[O L Leigh]

Hopper vents are rubbish because they only work when the train is in motion. I've been stuck on a Cl150/2 outside Ely for only about 30 minutes and it quickly became unbearable because of the lack of breeze. The unit just became a greenhouse.

O L Leigh

 

[ainsworth74]

Hopper vents are rubbish because they only work when the train is in motion.

Too true, I've suffered the greenhouse effect my self before now (overcrowed 142 on a hot summers day, funfunfun). However better than the nothing we got on modern units I would have thought?

 

[O L Leigh]

I think I'd rather be sat in a nice cool Desiro with sealed windows and A/C than a "Bin" with hopper vents. Modern A/C systems are pretty reliable, and if you do happen to be in the coach with the duff A/C you could always move to another one.

The only time the lack of opening windows becomes an issue is where a train is off the juice for whatever reason on a blazing hot day, and that is a thankfully rare event.

O L Leigh

 

[rail-britain]

Does anyone know how I can find out if trains from London to Scotland have opening windows either in carriage or in the doors between carriages?

I used to advocate trains with pressure ventilation from the windows
Now as a business traveller I am dead set against it, much preferring air con
However, on leisure trips I do like travelling on HSTs so that I can peek out occasionally

As an alternative you could travel by "local" services all the way from Scotland to London, these services would also have pressure ventilation
However this would be relatively expensive (as well as uncomfortable) and a First Class ticket would be cheaper!
Example :
Glasgow - Carlisle (via Kilmarnock)
Carlisle - Leeds
Leeds - Manchester
Manchester - Crewe
Crewe - London Euston

 

[A60K]

Hopper windows really are of marginal use - much prefer the Swiss approach of droplights that go halfway down. Although then you get the natives complaining of a draught!

 

[stut]

Open windows do also help to drown out the noise coming from headphones, mobiles and the HELLO I'M ON THE TRAIN brigade. Particularly on a 365 at full tilt.

 

[37401]

Open windows do also help to drown out the noise coming from headphones, mobiles and the HELLO I'M ON THE TRAIN brigade. Particularly on a 365 at full tilt.

am I missing something here?

 

[stut]

am I missing something here?

Umm, I'm not sure.

The noise from the windows drowns out all manner of irritating noises inside.

365s regularly chunter along at quite high speeds, and they're what I travel on regularly, so that's what I picked...

 

[leedstraindude]

I think that was referring to your 365 at full tilt comment

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It's a saying - at full tilt - going very fast.

 

[yorksrob]

Hopper vents are rubbish

True, I find sliding ventilators much better. (and even if the train stops you can stand up and stick your head through it )

 

[TDK]

Not a big fan of all these more modern EMU's and DMU's which have no openable windows atall. For one thing you can't hear the engine/motor noise as loud.

99.9% of passengers do not want to hear the engine noise!

 

[4SRKT]

99.9% of passengers do not want to hear the engine noise!

Then I guess they would prefer a loco hauled coach, even a PV one, over a modern DMU with underfloor engines whining away.

 

[Goldfish62]

They do not have A/C, thats why.

They do actually, and I believe the windows should normally only be unlocked in the event of air-con failure. Seems very strange, though, why every window is thus fitted. The sister 458s have roughly 40% locked hopper windows and these are more adequate in the event of aircon failure. The other Junipers, the 460s have 100% sealed windows.

As regards the argument of opening windows v aircon, opening windows on a hot day are no substitute for aircon - you just get the hot air from outside blown at you. Give me aircon any day - the sealed windows also prevent heat loss in the winter and reduce noise levels significantly, the latter being a particular bugbear of rail travel since the earliest days.

 

[4SRKT]

How much additional fuel is consumed by having aircon on all the time? Plus all the ridiculous lit up internal signage, automated announcements, power operated doors, and invasive CCTV 'for your safety'?

Are people just much more stupid than they used to be, that they need to be spoonfed before they can be trusted to use a train?

 

[Vulcan]

How much additional fuel is consumed by having aircon on all the time? Plus all the ridiculous lit up internal signage, automated announcements, power operated doors, and invasive CCTV 'for your safety'?

Are people just much more stupid than they used to be, that they need to be spoonfed before they can be trusted to use a train?

The power used for lights, CCTV, Doors etc will be hardly anything compared to whats used for moving the whole thing. I reccon a unit with modern AC and smooth sides without open windows will be a lot more efficient then something running with no AC and the air resistance of open windows.

 

[Goldfish62]

The power used for lights, CCTV, Doors etc will be hardly anything compared to whats used for moving the whole thing. I reccon a unit with modern AC and smooth sides without open windows will be a lot more efficient then something running with no AC and the air resistance of open windows.

Agreed - and during the winter the sealed windows prevent heat loss and thus the heaters don't have to work so hard as with opening windows, which inevitably some pain in the **** always wants to have open on a freezing cold day.

 

[4SRKT]

The power used for lights, CCTV, Doors etc will be hardly anything compared to whats used for moving the whole thing.

Yes maybe, but that isn't what I asked.

I reccon a unit with modern AC and smooth sides without open windows will be a lot more efficient then something running with no AC and the air resistance of open windows.

Reckoning and knowning aren't the same thing. You may well be right, but can anyone actually confirm it?

 

[A60K]

It's been proved that increased drag from open windows on a motor car at speeds above around 50-60mph can have a significant effect on fuel consumption, and a well-designed air con system used sensibly is then more economical.

 

[Vulcan]

Yes maybe, but that isn't what I asked.

Less power used = Less fuel burnt, usually.

Reckoning and knowning aren't the same thing. You may well be right, but can anyone actually confirm it?

I know, thats why I used the word reccon, because I'm not certain. However it makes sence, there must be a reason why virtually all transport (and buildings for that matter) have gone onto using air conditioning systems instead of relying on open windows to cool down.

 

[4SRKT]

I know, thats why I used the word reccon, because I'm not certain. However it makes sence, there must be a reason why virtually all transport (and buildings for that matter) have gone onto using air conditioning systems instead of relying on open windows to cool down.

Cheap oil? It's the reason for a hell of a lot of the way the world is now, and a good part of the reason why we could well be sh*gged in the future

 

[Greenback]

Indeed, we may look back and consider our over reliance on oil as a fatal mistake...