Origin points for mileage and chainage signs

[infobleep]

On may bridges I will see signs saying things like 15m 37ch. Above it will be a code for that structure. It will consist of letters and numbers, the numbers going in sequence with the occasional letter added on the end if one number is used twice.

I don't have any photos on my phone right now to show an example.

The m stands for miles and the ch for chains and these will be the distance of the structure from an origin point.

Does anyone know if a list of origin points exists publicly anywhere? I'd love to be able to pass such a sign and then look up the location that it is a set distance from.

 

[cool110]

They're in the sectional appendix

 

[infobleep]

They're in the sectional appendix

Thanks. Is that the ones printed for each route or railway company?

 

[Senex]

Thanks. Is that the ones printed for each route or railway company?

On the Network Rail web-site for each route. But be careful to use ALL the information there and not just start-point and end-point - there are pitfalls! So, for example, the Penzance main line is measured via Bristol and into and out of the old Plymouth Millbay station, not via the route taken by most fast trains today. And on the Midland main line all distances north of Derby assume the use of the old Derby avoiding line, not today's route through the station, then at Clay Cross they assume use of the direct line from Trent, not today's route via Derby, and the from Masborough they assume not only use of the direct Trent to Clay Cross line but also the Old Road direct from Chesterfield .... etc.

 

[Railsigns]

They're in the sectional appendix

You'll only be able to get them from the Sectional Appendix if you can find the zero point. In some instances, the zero point is somewhere that's no longer on the rail network.

Quail Maps are best for this purpose as they clearly state where the mileages are measured from on each route.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for that. Really interesting. I will have a look further.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a famous zero mileage point in the middle of one of the platforms at York station.
I think it's the zero point for 11 separate routes.
Most London termini are zeros, but Marylebone is measured from Manchester via Woodhead (205.77).

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Most London termini are zeros, but Marylebone is measured from Manchester via Woodhead.

They used to be the zeros, but many of them now have a negative mileage at the buffers, resulting from extending the platforms. Euston is a good example.

Manchester Victoria is the zero for two routes (and the high mileage for Chat Moss) but both the first miles are short ...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

One other mileage I like is the 68+ approaching Reading from Wokingham.
Reading is 36 miles from Paddington, and 43.5 from Waterloo, but the 68 is measured via the original South Eastern Railway route from Charing Cross via Redhill and Guildford.
Today's main line from Waterloo via Staines and Wokingham came later.

 

[Deepgreen]

One other mileage I like is the 68+ approaching Reading from Wokingham.
Reading is 36 miles from Paddington, and 43.5 from Waterloo, but the 68 is measured via the original South Eastern Railway route from Charing Cross via Redhill and Guildford.
Today's main line from Waterloo via Staines and Wokingham came later.

Funnily enough, I happened to be travelling from Reading to Betchworth the other day and noticed the 68 post and did wonder if the above was the case. Good to have it confirmed.

 

[infobleep]

One other mileage I like is the 68+ approaching Reading from Wokingham.
Reading is 36 miles from Paddington, and 43.5 from Waterloo, but the 68 is measured via the original South Eastern Railway route from Charing Cross via Redhill and Guildford.
Today's main line from Waterloo via Staines and Wokingham came later.

I love things like this. Fascinating. I would never have guessed that.

 

[Deepgreen]

I love things like this. Fascinating. I would never have guessed that.

It's been mentioned elsewhere, but until 1964 there was a 1725 London Bridge to Reading (steam-hauled) train. Had I been a Betchworth commuter then, that would have suited me perfectly!

 

[infobleep]

It's been mentioned elsewhere, but until 1964 there was a 1725 London Bridge to Reading (steam-hauled) train. Had I been a Betchworth commuter then, that would have suited me perfectly!

Did they have a morning service from Reading to London Bridge?

 

[adrock1976]

They used to be the zeros, but many of them now have a negative mileage at the buffers, resulting from extending the platforms. Euston is a good example.

Manchester Victoria is the zero for two routes (and the high mileage for Chat Moss) but both the first miles are short ...

Regarding Manchester Victoria being the zero point for two routes, would that be for the Manchester & Leeds Railway and the Manchester & Southport Railway, before they merged to form the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Regarding Manchester Victoria being the zero point for two routes, would that be for the Manchester & Leeds Railway and the Manchester & Southport Railway, before they merged to form the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway?

The M&L started from Oldham Road, so they must have re-cast the mileage when the line was extended to Victoria.
Mileage on the LNWR route via Huddersfield also starts from Victoria, so that there are different mileages between Heaton Lodge and Thornhill.
The LNWR mileage is suppressed over this L&Y stretch, but then resumes via Dewsbury to Leeds.

West of Victoria, the original Manchester & Bolton started at Salford before extension back to Victoria.
Then came Liverpool & Bury (via Wigan and Bolton), and finally the Manchester & Southport (ie Pendleton-Crow Nest, Wigan-Southport).
I would guess the L&Y re-cast all the mileages when Victoria opened.

 

[edwin_m]

They used to be the zeros, but many of them now have a negative mileage at the buffers, resulting from extending the platforms. Euston is a good example.

But presumably the other way round at St Pancras, Liverpool Street and (I seem to recall) Paddington?

 

[IrishDave]

But presumably the other way round at St Pancras, Liverpool Street and (I seem to recall) Paddington?

The Paddington 'zero' is in fact at the former end-on junction with the Metropolitan Railway, making the buffers at +5 chains from the zero.

 

[Muzer]

On may bridges I will see signs saying things like 15m 37ch. Above it will be a code for that structure. It will consist of letters and numbers, the numbers going in sequence with the occasional letter added on the end if one number is used twice.

I don't have any photos on my phone right now to show an example.

The m stands for miles and the ch for chains and these will be the distance of the structure from an origin point.

Does anyone know if a list of origin points exists publicly anywhere? I'd love to be able to pass such a sign and then look up the location that it is a set distance from.

Another vote for Quail maps — they're really the best way to find this information, I believe. See http://www.trackmaps.co.uk/

 

[pdeaves]

Does anyone know if a list of origin points exists publicly anywhere? I'd love to be able to pass such a sign and then look up the location that it is a set distance from.

An alphabetical listing is available at http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/ELRs/ELR0.shtm.

 

[Pinza-C55]

There's a famous zero mileage point in the middle of one of the platforms at York station.
I think it's the zero point for 11 separate routes.
Most London termini are zeros, but Marylebone is measured from Manchester via Woodhead (205.77).

The York post is actually a replica of the original which disappeared during WW2 presumably destroyed by a bomb. The North Eastern Railway used to have a small handbook (I had a copy once) which gave the location of the ZERO points for all branches. Probably the most famous milepost on the NER was at Barnard Castle adjacent the East signalbox - it was fastened to the level crossing gate ! It now resides in a private collection.
There was supposedly an NER ZERO post at Kings Cross station adjacent to the buffers but I don't think anyone has ever turned up a photo.
Occasionally redundant mileposts from closed lines were reused on other lines to replace broken ones so some from the Malton & Driffield branch closed in 1958 were relocated to the Burton Salmon - Knottingley line.