Overcrowed Train, No free seats, Elderly person sat in your reserved seat.

[phil35]

What would you do in this situation? It hasn't happened to me, but the scenario crossed my mind the other day. Would it be reasonable to asik the person next to them to stand instead? Stand yourself until a seat frees up, even though you are entitled to a seat? I can't really see many people forcing the elderly person to stand though. I think I'd just stand, even though I'd probably be very annoyed at having to do so.

 

[Darandio]

I think I would just have to leave that be, it wouldn't be wise asking an elderly person to stand really. Although saying that, if the elderly person was female, sit on their knee! Grandmothers seem to like that!

 

[class377man]

Depends how long the journey is. I'm certainly not standing for several hours if i've paid for a seat but I'd probably overlook it for a 15 minute trip.

 

[northwichcat]

Probably best to inform the conductor (if possible.)

The ideal solution would be someone sat in a priority seat gives up their seat and the old person moves to that seat leaving your seat free.

A similar question. EMT once issued me a seat reservation for a priority seat so if someone got on needing a priority seat how easily should I have given up that seat? (There were also non-reserved priority seats which were occupied.)

 

[185]

Yep. Tell the guard, if you really want a seat, they may upgrade you. (assuming you can actually get down the train)

Chances are, in many metropolitan counties, Dorothy is traveling for free anyhow. Us conductors are rarely friends of Dorothy.

 

[Lee_Again]

Tough one this. Half of me says "get out, I've booked this seat. If you want a reserved seat book one yourself"; no reason why being old is an excuse. One the other hand, however, could you, really, ask an OAP to stand. Don't think I could.

In a similar vain, though, my wife and I were once on the Highland Chieftan in the days when smoking was allowed. We were in first, no-smoking as the wife doesn't smoke, and I walked in to the rear coach, sat down and proceeded to light up. The lady opposite asked if I could refrain from smoking because her son, sitting next to her, was asthmatic. No love was lost here and I politely reminded her she was sitting in the smoking section and that she should move, not me. I got the daggers from all around but in this instance felt I was in the right.

She wasn't that bothered because she didn't move. If my kids suffered similarly I would have not sat there in the first place.

 

[All Line Rover]

An elderly person who really needs a seat should sit in a priority seat! If you've reserved a non-priority seat, they have no right to sit in it.

If they honestly didn't realise that the seat was reserved, I would politely ask them to vacate the seat and sit in a priority one instead. I see no problem with that.

If they refuse to budge, I would contact the guard, who could either force the elderly person to sit in a priory seat (why they wouldn't want to I can't understand - priority seats have more legroom!) or give you a free upgrade to First Class.

 

[me123]

If you forced an OAP to stand, you and the train company would undoubtedly be slandered by the press.

Speak to the guard. Hopefully they'll appreciate the situation, and arrange for you to be seated elsewhere. But I would mention to the lady that I was reserved, because she'd maybe get an unreserved priority seat elsewhere. You never know.

 

[All Line Rover]

In a similar vain, though, my wife and I were once on the Highland Chieftan in the days when smoking was allowed. We were in first, no-smoking as the wife doesn't smoke, and I walked in to the rear coach, sat down and proceeded to light up. The lady opposite asked if I could refrain from smoking because her son, sitting next to her, was asthmatic. No love was lost here and I politely reminded her she was sitting in the smoking section and that she should move, not me. I got the daggers from all around but in this instance felt I was in the right.

She wasn't that bothered because she didn't move. If my kids suffered similarly I would have not sat there in the first place.

If she was sitting in a "smoking carriage" she had no right to tell people to stop smoking, even if her child is asthmatic. Still, who cares - smoking carriages don't exist any more. Thank goodness! I'm sure that the on board staff who didn't smoke were very pleased.

 

[jopsuk]

Us conductors are rarely friends of Dorothy.

um, what's sexuality got do with the issue of elderly people and seat reservations? "friend of Dorothy" is a phrase with a long established meaning...
It may well be that there aren't many gay conductors, but that's rather neither here nor there!

 

[WelshBluebird]

I really hate the assumption that a young person must always give up a seat for an old person.

One of my friends is 20, she has leukaemia. She has been undergoing chemo for it, and so is often very weak. She would not be able to stand for much longer than a few minutes. However about a month ago she was shouted at by a very rude old man for sitting in the "priority seating" bit on a bus.

Yes, generally older people need the seat more. But it is not always the case.

However, if this was me I would just let it go. I am more than able to stand on a train journey.

 

[MadCommuter]

I really hate the assumption that a young person must always give up a seat for an old person.

One of my friends is 20, she has leukaemia. She has been undergoing chemo for it, and so is often very weak. She would not be able to stand for much longer than a few minutes. However about a month ago she was shouted at by a very rude old man for sitting in the "priority seating" bit on a bus.

Yes, generally older people need the seat more. But it is not always the case.

However, if this was me I would just let it go. I am more than able to stand on a train journey.

Good point that young people are unable to stand too. I suffered from a bad back a couple of years ago and was in need of a seat. I never refused to give up my seat if asked, but wouldn't voluntarily give it up.

Now I'm recovered, I understand the benefits of a seat and willingly offer it. We will all, hopefully, be old someday!

 

[Wolvercoter]

It's happened to me on a crowded Voyager from Bristol to Exeter. As it was only an hour, I left it be. As a 32 year old man, I couldn't bring myself to turf her out - that's despite booking the seat especailly as I knew the service is always rammed.

There was no way of getting through the train to find the conductor - I would have had to left my cases or parcels unattended which may be been removed without warning.

 

[Any Permitted]

I really can't believe turfing out an old person from a seat would even pass anyone's mind. I'd just leave them be and wait for another seat to turn up.

If I saw someone on a train ask an elderly person to move so they could have their reserved seat I'd probably be pretty outraged and offer up my seat to the old person.

 

[All Line Rover]

I really can't believe turfing out an old person from a seat would even pass anyone's mind. I'd just leave them be and wait for another seat to turn up.

If I saw someone on a train ask an elderly person to move so they could have their reserved seat I'd probably be pretty outraged and offer up my seat to the old person.

Priority seats exist for mobility impaired (generally elderly) people. If you do not have a reservation but need a seat, you should sit in one of those.

If a seat is reserved, nobody apart from the reservation holder has a "right" to sit in that seat - whether young or old.

 

[amcluesent]

I'd seek the guard and aim to get the seat I'd reserved. My knees and back wouldn't be the better of standing for 1h+.

I'd just hope the vacated seat didn't stink of widdle...

 

[Greenback]

Tough one this. Half of me says "get out, I've booked this seat. If you want a reserved seat book one yourself"; no reason why being old is an excuse. One the other hand, however, could you, really, ask an OAP to stand. Don't think I could.

In a similar vain, though, my wife and I were once on the Highland Chieftan in the days when smoking was allowed. We were in first, no-smoking as the wife doesn't smoke, and I walked in to the rear coach, sat down and proceeded to light up. The lady opposite asked if I could refrain from smoking because her son, sitting next to her, was asthmatic. No love was lost here and I politely reminded her she was sitting in the smoking section and that she should move, not me. I got the daggers from all around but in this instance felt I was in the right.

She wasn't that bothered because she didn't move. If my kids suffered similarly I would have not sat there in the first place.

I actually saw a similar exchange in the 1980's ona South Wales to London HST. Unfortunately for the complainant, she picked ona very eloquent Irish gentleman who very clearly and politely explained that he would not be extinguishing his cigarette, nor would he be moving from his seat!

He offered the lady in question soem of his whiskey, this was enough to convince her to move to a non smokign carriage!

I really hate the assumption that a young person must always give up a seat for an old person.

One of my friends is 20, she has leukaemia. She has been undergoing chemo for it, and so is often very weak. She would not be able to stand for much longer than a few minutes. However about a month ago she was shouted at by a very rude old man for sitting in the "priority seating" bit on a bus.

Yes, generally older people need the seat more. But it is not always the case.

However, if this was me I would just let it go. I am more than able to stand on a train journey.

Very true. Appearances do not reveal everything.

For me, it would depend on the circumstances of the journey. If the elderly person looked infirm, frail or very old, I would leave them where they are. If they looked quite fit (I know what I wrote above!), I would politely mention that I had a seat reserved, but I would not mind them using it for a while.

If they were on a long journey, and there was little chance of getting my seat, I would hope that someone nearby would overhear the conversation who was gettign off soon, and offer their seat up instead. This has happened to me before between Reading and Swindon!

 

[SS4]

It happened to me once when going BHM-Paignton (the best part of 4 hours). I didn't have the heart to kick the elderly occupant out of my reserved seat so I thought I'll stand until Cheltenham Spa (CNM?) and someone might get off. There was one old battleaxe in the carriage assuming she had the right to sit down and someone did give her a seat to shut her up!

The conductor came in afterwards and invited those of us standing to find a seat in Standard which I did, at a table opposite to an elderly couple the exact opposite of the battleaxe mentioned above going to Dawlish. Those 3 and half hours passed much more peacefully and as well as getting free tea I got a £13 refund off XC for being in standard on a First ticket. I also ended up speaking to the conductor upon leaving at Paignton and he told us what a torrid time he had dealing with First

but I digress, I generally won't ask them to move unless it's a very long journey. SinceI tend to make the most of First Advances using the 16-25 railcard discount it's largely a moot point

 

[HYPODERMIC]

I really hate the assumption that a young person must always give up a seat for an old person.

One of my friends is 20, she has leukaemia. She has been undergoing chemo for it, and so is often very weak. She would not be able to stand for much longer than a few minutes. However about a month ago she was shouted at by a very rude old man for sitting in the "priority seating" bit on a bus.

Yes, generally older people need the seat more. But it is not always the case.

However, if this was me I would just let it go. I am more than able to stand on a train journey.

Indeed - you raise a very good point. The elderly can be just as inconsiderate as the young.

As a healthy young person myself, I make a habit of offering my seat to those with greater need - but several times the elderly person in question has kindly declined my offers, and rejected my gentle insistence, which is fair enough, and the journey usually continues without incident.

However, about two years ago I was sat on a particularly crowded bus on the way to college. Several elderly people boarded and a few were left standing. I offered my seat to them twice - and was twice firmly-but-politely declined. It's always uncomfortable in these circumstances and you can't really push the matter further, so you just accept it. But a minute later, a rather miserable old woman began chiding me for my rudeness in not offering my seat to those who actually need it etc etc - when I told her I already had she ignored my point and rudely dismissed me, before telling the people sat near to her how rude and disrespectful I was being and how I should have more respect for the elderly and so on. Had the aisle not been blocked by other people I would have stood up and insisted, or at least more clearly explained myself to the woman.

It wasn't exactly humiliating - but it was really quite embarrassing to be the focus of the bus as I got singled out by an arrogant and spiteful woman with a preconception she was out to justify. If people refuse my offer of a seat, I cannot force them to take it, and frankly I think it would be extremely patronising and snide of me to insist that they do.

I seethe when I think of her arrogance and spite, but every tree produces a few rotten apples, I suppose - just gotta try and teach yourself not to chop the whole thing down on the basis of a few bad experiences.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I really hate the assumption that a young person must always give up a seat for an old person.

One of my friends is 20, she has leukaemia. She has been undergoing chemo for it, and so is often very weak. She would not be able to stand for much longer than a few minutes. However about a month ago she was shouted at by a very rude old man for sitting in the "priority seating" bit on a bus.

Yes, generally older people need the seat more. But it is not always the case.

However, if this was me I would just let it go. I am more than able to stand on a train journey. I always offer my seat to a person more in need nowadays i just think its polite and hope that people would do it to me if i needed it.

In about y9 at school i spent 2 months in hospital with a severly broken femur. When i got back moving again some 6 months later i had to catch the bus to school and i was regularly asked to move by older people despite the fact i was sat with my crutches (i thought this would be enough). i usually responded politely with 'ive broken my leg quite badly' they said 'its only a leg your younger than me'. I then had to go through explaining what i had done to me, which was basically to remove the middle 9inches of my fibula to scaffold my hip, and after showing them the scars they left me alone, but one tried getting me thrown of the bus for being 'a little t***'! glady the bus driver didnt care. For about 2 years i would need a seat to prevent some quite serious pain in my knee and had alot of trouble with people asking me to move.

Now a days if an old lady/gentleman was sat in my seat i would find another seat or stand nearby so i can grab the seat as soon as she leaves. I tend to offer my seat to those who need it more than me just because id hope people will do the same for me when i need it. Plus my legs better so i dont mind standing up, have done all the way from penrith to sheffield before whitou issue

 

[JKJimar53]

I'd ask them to move. There are priority seats and reserved seats for a reason.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Who said chivalry was dead?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Simple, you let them have the seat and you stand, not matter how long your journey maybe. Its simple common decency.

With any luck we'll all be old one day and in need of a sit down!

 

[SS4]

Simple, you let them have the seat and you stand, not matter how long your journey maybe. Its simple common decency.

With any luck we'll all be old one day and in need of a sit down!

You still have to wonder how many are trying it on though. While I'd never force someone out of my seat I'd expect them to offer it upon seeing my reservation. It can also be argued that it is the likes of younger people (especially those young enough to be eligible for a 16-25 railcard) who will, in all likelihood have to work until the day they die in order to pay these pensions, free bus passes etc. Remember that the baby boomer generation decided to give themselves very useful pensions (hence the government cutting back on them) and then changing the rules to exclude those who follow them (which was the main reason I didn't strike on budget day 2010 when PCS walked out)

We've heard earlier about those young people who are sick and need a seat yet not considered the opposite side of the coin - that of the fit pensioner. Although rare they do exist (and by fit I mean could run 5k walks and other physical exertion).

Age is a false measure, largely based on it's connotations. As the stereotype goes old people must sit and young people must make way for them and, as with all stereotypes, reality is somewhat more complicated. If anything we need to dissociate age from infirmity. Everyone has a right to ask to sit in their reserved seat and a duty to not accept it if, in their opinion, the occupant needs it more.

 

[Any Permitted]

Priority seats exist for mobility impaired (generally elderly) people. If you do not have a reservation but need a seat, you should sit in one of those.

If a seat is reserved, nobody apart from the reservation holder has a "right" to sit in that seat - whether young or old.

It's not really a matter of your right to sit in the seat though. Just because you have a right to sit in it it doesn't make it the polite, adult thing to do to turf an elderly person out of a seat and to make them stand up.

 

[mikeg]

This happened to me once

I was traveling on an advance with a mandatory reservation from Manchester Piccadilly to Thirsk, so all in all a reasonably long journey. I politely advised the elderly person, who didn't look at all infirm that I had this seat reserved. She asked for my reservation ticket as proof. I showed her it. Then she just ignored me. I said "Maybe you should try asking someone in the priority seating to give up their seat." Still nothing. At this point a nice middle-aged gentleman offered me his seat as he was only going to Huddersfield and defused the situation. I thanked him and grabbed the seat.

My thoughts were the same, if you want a seat, reserve one, if you need one and didn't have time to reserve, ask someone in the priority seating to give up theirs. I don't know if the elderly woman had mobility issues, although she looked reasonably healthy and like she would be able to stand, though looks can as someone else has mentioned be deceiving.

 

[sonic2009]

Personally. I will always give up my seat to the elderly, whether it be on tube,bus,train.

They need it more than I do, what really peeves me off, is the fact on a busy tube train one evening just before xmas, a old lady got on with a walking stick, i was already stood up at the time. and no1 moved or thought to give up a seat. so i said to someone please give up a seat, this lady needs it more. then their was a whole host of offers.

I will also give up my seat for groups to sit together. I.e happened last week, where i was on a train from Swansea-Bristol Parkway, i was reserved to BPW, and the seat next to me from Cardiff.

The reservation holder got on at cardiff with two friends. one of them was reserved opposite. so i gladly said. look you can have my seat as im getting off at bristol parkway in 2 stops, i went and sat two seats behind in unreserved seats.

If you treat elderly with respect you get it back!

 

[Yew]

We've heard earlier about those young people who are sick and need a seat yet not considered the opposite side of the coin - that of the fit pensioner. Although rare they do exist (and by fit I mean could run 5k walks and other physical exertion).

My great grandad fell into that category, had a coal fire, that he carried a sack of coal in when he needed it. grew a large omount of his own food. and could probably outrun my grandad, and maybe even my dad. Unfortunately one day he got sick (dont know exactly what) and ended up in hospital, I dont think the sickness killed him, it was having to rely on other people and beign stuck in a hospital.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I say turf em out, there are specific seats for that kind of thing and if they are sitting in it then they are only trying to cause trouble. Remember, old people have nothing to do during the day.

Common decency comes in to it for them aswell, the fact that they've sat there in the first place means that they aren't decent people, you moving them on is your right and their obligation as passengers sitting in the wrong seat.

Using age to get what you want is just as bad as using gender, race and any other minority claim to get what you want

Who was it again that said chivalry was dead? Ah - thats right - you!

 

[trentside]

It's ok to suggest an elderly or infirm person look for a priority seat, but what about those who have been given the priority seats as a normal reserved seat? This has happened to me a couple of times with East Coast recently. In this case would I be required to give up my seat?

I'll add that I'm normally happy to give up my seat if someone needs it more than me, but just wondering what the position is in this case.