Parry People Movers - Class 139

[thenorthern]

This may seem a strange question but is there any future plans for more Parry People movers which is allocated the Class 139 TOPS.

I only as because around 10 years ago they were seen as a brilliant new train that would revolutionise small branch lines and after a trial on the Stourbridge Town Branch they became the trains used on the branch when the West Midlands Franchise became London Midland.

Since then however there was discussion about using them on other lines but nothing has yet materialised.

What is the future for them and will more be introduced?

 

[Muzer]

The main problem with them is that they don't meet crashworthiness regulations, so to operate on a heavy rail network they need to be the only thing working for the full length of the branch. There are few places where this can be the case, really, on existing lines, and the political climate doesn't allow much reopening of tiny, segregated branch lines that need only one unit for reasonable operation (Andover-Ludgershall would be a good candidate for this, and it almost looked like it might possibly happen at one stage, but not any more).

 

[edwin_m]

They are also much slower and much smaller than even a 153, so they only really make sense on a very short branch where they couldn't get much faster anyway and they can shuttle back and forth frequently to make up for the small number of seats. Stourbridge is about the only such branch which is also self-contained.

On a longer branch their low top speed would make them uncompetitive with buses, and their lower capacity while still using two crew means the operating costs per seat are much higher than for a larger train. The sorts of routes where the optimum vehicle capacity is less than 20 probably don't justify having a train service of any sort.

 

[D6975]

Parry do have a design for a bogie version, It seats 60 and has room for 40 to stand. They haven't built one as yet, but if you want one, they'll build you one.

 

[D365]

Before the abortive West Coast franchise renewal in 2012 (which postponed the awarding of several others) there was talk that bidders for several franchises had proposed the introduction of a number of PPM units for their respective branch lines. Why have we not seen any such proposals since then?

 

[47802]

The main problem with them is that they don't meet crashworthiness regulations, so to operate on a heavy rail network they need to be the only thing working for the full length of the branch. There are few places where this can be the case, really, on existing lines, and the political climate doesn't allow much reopening of tiny, segregated branch lines that need only one unit for reasonable operation (Andover-Ludgershall would be a good candidate for this, and it almost looked like it might possibly happen at one stage, but not any more).

Is it not the case that tram trains don't meet the full crash regulations but may be allowed providing robust signalling is in place.

Wernt they looking at a bigger bogie version for the Penistone trial which got cancelled, which they would need as the current version has Railbus overtones.

As much as I hate to say it the D230 may be a better solution for some lines at present.

 

[InOban]

I saw it in action at Stourbridge Junction. More staff than passengers, admittedly on a Sunday. Should be ATO, or abandoned. The Junction has parking for over 700.

 

[D365]

The Junction has parking for over 700.

And what about those people who can't or don't want to drive?

 

[berneyarms]

I saw it in action at Stourbridge Junction. More staff than passengers, admittedly on a Sunday. Should be ATO, or abandoned. The Junction has parking for over 700.

Hardly a representative time to judge the entire operation?

 

[InOban]

There are bus services. Probably to a wider range of destinations than the PPM.

 

[thenorthern]

Stourbridge Town does get quite a few passengers it was used by almost 550,000 passengers last year which given that its only connection is to Stourbridge Junction is quite a lot and I think is similar in passenger numbers to the Far North Line despite the fact that its 200x shorter.

I remember going to the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway with my school in 2007 and being told about Parry People Mover as they were the future according to some people.

 

[InOban]

Many more than I expected. 10000 a week. But there are about 700 trains each way every week, 1400 in total, so an average of 7 passengers per train. And two train crew. Meanwhile the new Glasgow underground stock will have no crew at all, in common with many other metro systems.

 

[randyrippley]

I'd have thought a scaled up electric version would be ideal for Windermere...spin the flywheel up on the overhead at Oxenholme, and then provide an AC feed at Windermere to spin it up again there

 

[edwin_m]

Parry do have a design for a bogie version, It seats 60 and has room for 40 to stand. They haven't built one as yet, but if you want one, they'll build you one.

The reason the Parry vehicle is cheap is that it uses simple equipment from the worlds of automotive and "appropriate" technology. Making it fast enough to be competitive on a longer route, or making it able to run in multiple, may trigger a step change in the sophistication and the cost. I did some quick checks at the time the Stourbridge scheme was first talked about and on a per-passenger basis the cost was similar to that of a light rail vehicle from one of the big suppliers.

 

[Muzer]

Many more than I expected. 10000 a week. But there are about 700 trains each way every week, 1400 in total, so an average of 7 passengers per train. And two train crew. Meanwhile the new Glasgow underground stock will have no crew at all, in common with many other metro systems.

There are also probably about 7 seats in a Parry People Mover. So pretty well-used.

 

[thenorthern]

There are also probably about 7 seats in a Parry People Mover. So pretty well-used.

25 seats I think.

 

[Mordac]

25 seats I think.

17+4 tip ups according to P5.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I'd have thought a scaled up electric version would be ideal for Windermere...spin the flywheel up on the overhead at Oxenholme, and then provide an AC feed at Windermere to spin it up again there

I think capacity on PPM would be an issue on that branch!

 

[Z12XE]

I only as because around 10 years ago they were seen as a brilliant new train that would revolutionise small branch lines

So thats where Vivarail got their marketing advice from....

 

[takno]

Many more than I expected. 10000 a week. But there are about 700 trains each way every week, 1400 in total, so an average of 7 passengers per train. And two train crew. Meanwhile the new Glasgow underground stock will have no crew at all, in common with many other metro systems.

It should probably be DOO, although then you get into issues like barriering. In contrast to your experience I don't think I've ever been on it when it wasn't full and standing. I have also failed to get on because there wasn't physically room before, which suggests that numbers could be higher on a larger train. Overall it's a good little service which may even make money. Even if it doesn't make a profit directly it's still valuable because it keeps Stourbridge town centre on the railway map, and gets a lot of people using the train for longer distance services who would otherwise drive.

As to the stock, it's pretty awful. The horrible ride quality is mostly down to the barely-maintained jointed rail, but the noise of the thing is horrendous. The D-train has most of the advantages of the PPM in terms of easy maintenance, and would be a far more pleasant unit to be on for any distance.

 

[birchesgreen]

It reminded me of being on a fairground ride

 

[xotGD]

Perhaps the refurbished 144 could find a home on the Stourbridge branch?

 

[D365]

Perhaps the refurbished 144 could find a home on the Stourbridge branch?

What would it do that the Class 139s can't?

 

[Z12XE]

Takno's post would suggest add needed capacity but I'd guess that maintenance requirements and probably cost would make it not worthwhile

 

[thenorthern]

Stourbridge Town line won't become automated for a long time unless for a test/trial of automated trains.

Given the shortness of the branch it would only make sense to automate it it was automated along with the wider West Midlands Network.

 

[takno]

Perhaps the refurbished 144 could find a home on the Stourbridge branch?

Jointed track and tight curves all the way. I think replacing it with a 144 could definitely make me reassess how noisy the PPM is

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Growth in ridership on the Stourbridge Town service is such that a 15 metre bogie vehicle is becoming a need. At some times of the day is is such that people get left behind at the town and miss connections at the junction.

 

[D365]

Growth in ridership on the Stourbridge Town service is such that a 15 metre bogie vehicle is becoming a need. At some times of the day is is such that people get left behind at the town and miss connections at the junction.

Is it likely that further rolling stock will be procured for the branch operation in a new franchise?

 

[superkev]

Have Parry actually sold any more outside the UK perhaps. The factory must make something.
K

 

[Firesprite]

Have Parry actually sold any more outside the UK perhaps. The factory must make something.
K

I do wonder how they stay in business.