Permitted Routes between Southampton (SOU) and Portsmouth (PMS)

[Matt1992]

Okay, this has confused me and I have decided to get some more advice.

I need to travel between Southampton and Portsmouth. For now we will assume Southampton Central and Portsmouth & Southsea. I would like to do this with a monthly ticket, although for the sake of argument let's just assume 1 journey.

The general route would be direct between the stations (via St Deny's, Fareham, etc). With my ticket, would I be able to go via Eastleigh station instead? i.e. From Southampton Central to Eastleigh (via Dt Deny's & Swaythling & Airport Parkway) and then to Portsmouth (via Hedge End & Fareham & etc).

If I look up the price on Trainline or National Rail:

SOU->PMS - £11.60
SOU->PMS via Eastleigh - £11.60

Same price == Same ticket??

I would just like to be able to choose the direct train or the via Eastleigh train depending on which ever one I fancy on that particular day. I have no interest in leaving the station at Eastleigh, just as a via point.

If someone could explain what is and isn't allowed in this situation, that would be really appreciated.

 

[mmh]

Yes, Southampton to Portsmouth is valid either direct or via Eastleigh - the ticket sold will be the same whether you specify via Eastleigh or not.

 

[sheff1]

Welcome.

All tickets between Southampton and Portsmouth are routed "Any Permitted". The permitted routes are shown in the Routeing Guide (RG) - http://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide. The RG is not the easiest thing to get your head round but, between SOU & PMS the only relevant map is 'RB' which includes both the routes you describe, so no problem going either way.

With a season ticket you can exit at any station on a permitted route so if you did want to go to Eastleigh, or the Airport etc, that would be fine as well.

 

[Matt1992]

Thank you Sheff1 and mmh.

Earlier today I spent 40 minutes reading the routeing guide. I thought I had it figured out but then I looked at the RB map and saw that it includes lines up to Birmingham - and I'm fairly sure that I cannot take a train to Portsmouth via Birmingham! Again, thanks for the advice.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thank you Sheff1 and mmh.

Earlier today I spent 40 minutes reading the routeing guide. I thought I had it figured out but then I looked at the RB map and saw that it includes lines up to Birmingham - and I'm fairly sure that I cannot take a train to Portsmouth via Birmingham! Again, thanks for the advice.

You can go from the origin to the destination along the map, following any route that does not double back on itself (bear in mind the squares used for the map represent Routeing Points and/or station groups, which may differ from the underlying railway geography).

You can go as far north as Basingstoke on map RB before you start doubling back on yourself.

 

[sprunt]

You can go from the origin to the destination along the map, following any route that does not double back on itself (bear in mind the squares used for the map represent Routeing Points and/or station groups, which may differ from the underlying railway geography).

You can go as far north as Basingstoke on map RB before you start doubling back on yourself.

Does this mean that Southampton to Basingstoke via Romsey, and thence to Portsmouth via Eastleigh would be a permitted route? That would be a pretty good range of journeys that could be made with a Southampton-Portsmouth season ticket.

 

[alistairlees]

No, as you would pass through Eastleigh and Winchester twice. Unless the map is interpreted as meaning via Salisbury, which I don't think is the intention. Overall the map is misleading.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

No, as you would pass through Eastleigh and Winchester twice. Unless the map is interpreted as meaning via Salisbury, which I don't think is the intention. Overall the map is misleading.

I think the map is certainly ambiguous - and we know that if there is any doubt as to the interpretation of a term in a consumer contract, the interpretation more favourable to the consumer prevails (as per S69(1) of the CRA 2015).

Therefore, absent a negative easement or other clear prohibition, the fact that Salisbury isn't shown on map RB is not, IMO, an obstacle to reasonably claiming that Romsey-Basingstoke is permitted avoiding Eastleigh (i.e. via Salisbury).

After all, what other purpose would the line on the map between Romsey and Basingstoke serve? This line it does not pass through Eastleigh, to which a separate line is drawn.

 

[Paul Kelly]

After all, what other purpose would the line on the map between Romsey and Basingstoke serve?

As I understand it, it permits travel via the Laverstock curve to the east of Salisbury. I seem to remember CrossCountry trains sometimes use this route on diversions, but according to PSUL there's nothing using it in the current timetable.

 

[swt_passenger]

No, as you would pass through Eastleigh and Winchester twice. Unless the map is interpreted as meaning via Salisbury, which I don't think is the intention. Overall the map is misleading.

I agree with previous post (perhaps the Routeing Guide amendments thread shows it) the map was probably re-drawn that way to make sure that journey planners could deal with XC diversions to/from Basingstoke via Laverstock. There are no through services Romsey to Basingstoke in the normal timetable.

Travelling via Salisbury would use a different map, and there was also a Routeing Guide change not that along ago specifically to stop people travelling between Basingstoke and Southampton via Salisbury.

 

[kieron]

The link is there for the diversion. The text in the 2014 summary reads:

To facilitate engineering work diversions in Hampshire that impact XC Train services; maps have been amended to add in a route link which allows Journey Planners to return journeys where trains travel via Romsey and Laverstock Junctions (not going via Salisbury Station) to Basingstoke and beyond.

I don't think there are any easements which would restrict a Portsmouth-Southampton ticket, in the way that 300218 restricts Portsmouth-Bedhampton ones. But then, there doesn't need to be.