Permitted routes Kent to IoM SailRail

[SandsofEss]

Can anyone advise on permitted routes for an Economy Saver (SailRail) ticket to the Isle of Man?

I’m planning to book a return between Tonbridge in Kent and Douglas on the Isle of Man.

I want to use the return portion on Monday 21st April, when it appears the WCML is closed.

I can find several theoretical alternative itineraries for this journey.

• If we sail to Heysham, there are possible itineraries via Leeds or Peterborough.

• If we sail to Liverpool, there are itineraries via Birmingham and Marylebone.

I say theoretical, because I cannot find a journey planner that will give me one of these itineraries AND can sell the SailRail ticket.

Would these be considered permitted routes, given the ‘usual’ route via the WCML is closer for engineering works?

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[lfc84]

Use TFW and select open return.
When you've booked phone the Isle of Man Steam Packet and they'll make the reservation on the ferry

That will result in you having a ferry reservation and train ticket.

Then I would use an itinerary on the 21 April obtained from either TFW or tickets.railforums.co.uk

 

[SandsofEss]

Thanks.

I should have said - the possible itineraries I can find are not from Douglas. Rather they are from Heysham Port (because so few sites sell the Douglas ticket).

Would it be safe to assume that if a journey planner shows an itinerary from Heysham Port to Tonbridge, on a non-advance, non-split ticket, that would be classed as a permitted route for a Douglas to Tonbridge journey too?

 

[MrJeeves]

Thanks.

I should have said - the possible itineraries I can find are not from Douglas. Rather they are from Heysham Port (because so few sites sell the Douglas ticket).

Would it be safe to assume that if a journey planner shows an itinerary from Heysham Port to Tonbridge, on a non-advance, non-split ticket, that would be classed as a permitted route for a Douglas to Tonbridge journey too?

Yes, that's correct. That is the "rail head" for that destination within GB.

TrainSplit used to sell the SailRail ticket but there were problems when it was found you had to call to reserve a space on the ferry and it wasn't tied into any of the reservation systems for the railway, like the Stena Line ferries are.

 

[philthetube]

Alternatively you could book at a ticket office, if this is practical for you. They made the phone call for me when I booked.

 

[SandsofEss]

Thanks all for your help. I booked via TfW a few days ago, and then phoned the IoM Steam Packet company to reserve the boat.

A note of caution on the latter. Apparently my mobile network considers the Isle of Man to be overseas (despite not needing to enter a dialling code, that code being +44, and the number beginning 01). So I've been charged a hefty fee for a five minute call. Something to bear in mind for anyone else looking in future!

 

[Adam Williams]

Thanks all for your help. I booked via TfW a few days ago, and then phoned the IoM Steam Packet company to reserve the boat.

A note of caution on the latter. Apparently my mobile network considers the Isle of Man to be overseas (despite not needing to enter a dialling code, that code being +44, and the number beginning 01). So I've been charged a hefty fee for a five minute call. Something to bear in mind for anyone else looking in future!

When we spoke to the folks at Steam Packet, they did suggest that passengers could reserve via email for what it's worth! The whole process seems a bit janky and disconnected from the rail side unfortunately.

 

[SandsofEss]

Thanks. I had hoped so, but when I sent through an email with the pertinent details I was directed to ring!

Probably one of those 'depends who you get through to' things...

 

[philthetube]

Thanks all for your help. I booked via TfW a few days ago, and then phoned the IoM Steam Packet company to reserve the boat.

A note of caution on the latter. Apparently my mobile network considers the Isle of Man to be overseas (despite not needing to enter a dialling code, that code being +44, and the number beginning 01). So I've been charged a hefty fee for a five minute call. Something to bear in mind for anyone else looking in future!

I think this applies to all networks unless you have an international roaming contract

 

[Haywain]

I think this applies to all networks unless you have an international roaming contract

Unless I've misunderstood, the OP is referring to the cost of making a call from the UK to the Isle of Man so roaming isn't relevant. It's about the cost of a call to a "foreign" number.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

A note of caution on the latter. Apparently my mobile network considers the Isle of Man to be overseas (despite not needing to enter a dialling code, that code being +44, and the number beginning 01). So I've been charged a hefty fee for a five minute call. Something to bear in mind for anyone else looking in future!

In Post Office (Telephone) days, Isle of Man landlines were treated as part of the UK domestic network. Indeed the code for Isle of Man (MAN) is 01624, very similar to Maidenhead 01628. On a telephone keypad, 6 is M and 2 is A. Don't know how they get the last digit. Similarly High Wycombe is 01494 with 4=H and 9=W. Slough is 01753 , 7=S and 5=L

At some time presumably during privatisation, the Isle of Man company was demerged from BT. At some time, I don't know when, mobile phone companies found the delights of not treating Isle of Man landlines as part of the UK national network. I think if you call from a UK landline, you still get normal domestic rates.

 

[philthetube]

Unless I have it wrong, and apologies if I have the op states that they have received a hefty bill so assumed that that was to the mobile, so roaming was relative.

 

[SandsofEss]

Yes, I called an IoM landline (01624) from a UK mobile.

My mobile contract includes free roaming, but that doesn't cover calls from the UK to international numbers.

Whether it should be deemed an international number is another question entirely!

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Whether it should be deemed an international number is another question entirely!

If you call 01624 numbers from a mobile network in the UK and check the bill, you become aware of the problem. Whilst using a UK landline avoids the charge, are there any UK mobile networks that treat 01624 as if a UK domestic landline?

 

[Tetchytyke]

When we spoke to the folks at Steam Packet, they did suggest that passengers could reserve via email for what it's worth!

The left hand has never really known what the right hand is doing at the Steam Packet. They say you can email them in their promotional bumph but my experience is that they don't really like emails and prefer to do everything on the phone. I'm still not entirely sure why.

Whether it should be deemed an international number is another question entirely!

At some time presumably during privatisation, the Isle of Man company was demerged from BT. At some time, I don't know when, mobile phone companies found the delights of not treating Isle of Man landlines as part of the UK national network.

It's the same when you call the Channel Islands. Historically part of the UK's telecommunications network but hasn't been for a very very long time, and it's the same with the postal service. Calls to 01624 and 07624 numbers are treated as international calls from a UK mobile, so also bear that in mind if you're ringing to book accommodation. Calling 01624 and 07624 numbers from a UK landline seems to be more variable, certainly some landline suppliers do charge it as an international call.

The Steam Packet direct you to their 0872 number if you're calling from the UK, which can be a bit cheaper at 11p/minute.

o2's charging is all over the place if you're in the IOM ringing an IOM number, mind. Normally I get charged the normal rate (i.e. it's in my inclusive minutes) but sometimes I get charged the international rate. If I'm in the UK I always get charged the international rate. It seems that I shouldn't be charged here but I don't want to go poking about too much as I'm not really roaming if I live here...

We are international, though! It means I'm allowed to buy and use a BritRail pass, so it suits me

ETA: And to answer your query, you should absolutely be fine on diversion by treating the ticket as a Liverpool or Heysham to Tonbridge ticket. If you use the GWR website you can get yourself seat reservations and an itinerary.

I would suggest that, if you can, that you take the Liverpool crossing. It's a quicker crossing and there are still issues at Heysham with the linkspan; foot passengers have to be taken by bus from the ferry and there have been reports of people missing the train as a result. It's not a huge disaster as it's a short walk to catch the 2X bus into Lancaster, but still.

 

[Sniffingmoose]

I travelled to the Isle of Man last August. Travelled on a Monday Its cheaper to travel on a weekday. With railcard discount it was £74 return. Bargain. I purchaced the ticket from Burton on Trent Ticket office. Just asked for a return to Douglas. I then phoned the Isle of Man steam packet to reserved my place on the boat. The call used up all my phone credit!

The new boat from Heysham is very good but there were other rail and sale passangers were left stranded in Lancaster from the day before (a Sunday) because Northern cancelled the 1 train a day Lancaster to Heysham on the Sunday. Not sure how reliable the Heysham service is at weekend at the moment.

Just be aware that its best to turn the data off on your mobile phone as the Isle of Man (Manx telecom) are not part of the european roaming with my phone provider (giffgaff).

Before you come back, go down to the ferry terminal in Douglas harbour and reserve you place on the boat. Also be warned the morning ferry to Heysham seems to leave once they have loaded all the cars. I nearly missed it.

If you are staying for a while its worth getting a public transport pass for a week. The bus service on the island is excellent and runs late into the evening.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The new boat from Heysham is very good but there were other rail and sale passangers were left stranded in Lancaster from the day before (a Sunday) because Northern cancelled the 1 train a day Lancaster to Heysham on the Sunday. Not sure how reliable the Heysham service is at weekend at the moment.

Not very.

If going via Heysham as a foot passenger, I normally just plan to take the 2X bus from Lancaster. The stop is 'Combermere Road' and it is 10-15 minute walk from there to the ferry terminal. The bus goes fast down the Bay Gateway and then into Lancaster past the college.



The 2X never used to run on Sundays but it now does.

Just be aware that its best to turn the data off on your mobile phone as the Isle of Man (Manx telecom) are not part of the european roaming with my phone provider (giffgaff).

That's bad; it's included in my free roaming with o2, which is why I've never quite got round to cancelling my contract with them.

 

[SandsofEss]

Bumping this thread with an updated question...

I’m planning to travel from Douglas on the Isle of Man to Marden in Kent on Monday 21st April.

The WCML is closed, but I had previously found an alternative itinerary via Leeds on the forum’s ticketing site (screenshot below).

Checking today, I can no longer get the site to present this itinerary on a single flexible ticket. I can’t get any other retailing site to present it either, so I’m concerned it’s not a permitted route.

Can anyone help? I’m seeking to confirm:

1. Whether Heysham Port -> Morecambe -> Leeds -> Stevenage -> London Bridge -> Marden is a permitted route for a Douglas to Marden ticket?
2. If I need to ‘prove it’ to a ticket inspector, is there any way to do this when I can no longer get an itinerary?

If needs be I can take the WCML as far as Milton Keynes and then the RRB to Bedford, but I’d certainly rather travel via the Bentham line if possible.

 

[janb]

Not a permitted route on my TIS journey planner, and looking at the routeing guide I can't see a permitted route that way. Normally going to London and beyond via Leeds from this part of the world is a no-no.

Just as an aside if anyone reading this were to do a similar journey, make the change onto the Leeds train at Lancaster not Morecambe, because a) if its delayed and the train spins at Lancaster you are not screwed, b) if its worse and its mega disruption you will be able to adopt plan B quicker, and c) there are facilities such as toilets.

 

[Haywain]

c) there are facilities such as toilets.

I'm pretty sure there was a toilet at Morecambe station when I was there a couple of weeks ago.

 

[janb]

I'm pretty sure there was a toilet at Morecambe station when I was there a couple of weeks ago.

I can guarantee you there isn't. A lot of people misread the "Tickets" sign on the booking hall door as "Toilets" so you might have fallen victim to that.

Nearest public toilets (40p) are either Festival Market or Market Street car park. Nearest place with toilets is Morrisons. Morecambe in general is best enjoyed with a strong bladder as provision isn't great.

 

[SandsofEss]

Thank you @janb

Sounds like I should steel myself for the RRB then.

 

[janb]

Yeah the only none bus option I could see was Heysham Port -> Lancaster -> Manchester Oxford Road -> Peterborough -> London Bridge -> Marden, which takes an hour longer than the RRB option and presumably involves packed TPE and EMR trains. Personally I too would steel myself for a 40 minute RRB ride.