Police stopping trains?

[manchester-pr]

Evening all

A few weeks ago my train got stopped by the police. By stopped, I mean that there were 2 police officers were besides the rail track, a few metres from the end of the platform. The train also came to a halt directly before the station by around 200 metres (so I am guessing it was a red signal and the police officers probably short circuited the equipment to give the red light since the next train at the time was around 3 miles up the line, many signals away (based off RTT data and well, the normal timetable)

The train then called at my station, and then when I alighted I noticed the train went ahead a few metres so the driver could speak to the police officers and after 2 minutes, went ahead to the last 2 stations.

I am however wondering, why this may have happened? The officers never got on the train, and the police van (which was at the bus stop nearby) was the Greater Manchester police van.

This was Northern.

 

[Darandio]

No idea why it happened but the police officers would not have interfered with the equipment in order to display a red signal.

 

[Moonshot]

Police have absolutely zero capacity to stop a train in that fashion. The way you describe this makes it sound like a response to a trespass incident. This is a regular occurrence.

 

[Geeves]

The more likely scenario the box held the signal at danger after a report of something amiss further up the line. The TOC and Network Rail would not be happy at the police just coming along and throwing signals to danger like that.

 

[pdeaves]

As others imply, the police can request that the signaller stops trains, but they don't do it themselves. There are many reasons why this may be the case; trespass, pursuing a suspect, etc.

 

[IanXC]

Perhaps even, signaller puts signal to danger so as to be able to caution the driver to reports of trespassers on the line (who turn out to be civil police...).

 

[pdeaves]

Perhaps even, signaller puts signal to danger so as to be able to caution the driver to reports of trespassers on the line (who turn out to be civil police...).

That also, regrettably, is a real possibility!

 

[Egg Centric]

I was on a train once where a murder suspect (I think) was arrested. The train stopped at West Hampstead (I think; might have been Cricklewood) and the driver said there was a problem with the doors and essentially to be patient.

Meanwhile I saw him talking with someone who I now know to be undercover police and while I couldn't hear exactly what was going on, it was enough that I could guess something exciting was about to happen.

About 5 minutes later armed police stormed the rear of the train, suspect arrested, and we're on our way. I started videoing towards end of the storming, although in truth it is not very interesting other than "proof" this happened.

There doesn't seem to be a way to quickly upload videos here and I can't be bothered to go through rigmarole of a youtube account for this, but for the next week it's downloadable at https://filebin.net/59dv2enoj3jbeux0

Edit: think it must be this case, the timing fits (but not the image of the 319 )

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Perhaps this was an experiment relating to doing away with physical lineside signals and go back to policemen waving flags at the side of the tracks using the time interval method

Just imagine the carnage in today's congested railway...

 

[deltic14]

This reminded me of an incident that I witnessed on the S&C on March 6th 1983. I was on a Glasgow Central to Nottingham service travelling to Sheffield where I was a student. The train was hauled by 47 524 and the train came to an unscheduled halt at one of the intermediate stations - I didn't note which one. Two police officers came on board and systematically went through the train asking every male passenger if they were person so and so. I've long forgotten the actual name. After a while a man was seen being escorted of the train and everyone thought a wanted criminal had been caught. Not so. Several months later at a student party I found out that the bloke in question was an expert on a particular cave system in the Dales and was urgently needed to help in a cave rescue which I believe was successful.

 

[londonboi]

The more likely scenario the box held the signal at danger after a report of something amiss further up the line. The TOC and Network Rail would not be happy at the police just coming along and throwing signals to danger like that.

The police would not interfere with any equipment in the first instance nor would they have the equipment to “throw signals to danger” the signals would be at danger by the signaller whom would be aware the police are on or about the track anyway hence the reason for stopping the train at the red signal

 

[EveningStar]

That also, regrettably, is a real possibility!

Nothing new either. See sections 38-40 in the this, Report on the Double Collision that occurred on 25th June 1976 at Luton .

 

[Signal_Box]

Civil or BTP contact Network Rail control to request a stop on trains, that is passed to the controlling signaller who will replace signals in the area and advise drivers if a caution or block is required.

BTP are generally okay when if comes fo going lineside, civils however seem to think the railway is like a road and wander on without telling us.

Police will NEVER interfere with signalling equipment.

 

[pdeaves]

civils however seem to think the railway is like a road

There was a case in the 1960s (I think) in East Anglia; there was a race across a level crossing and a policeman stood in the track, hand raised, to stop the train (just like you would to stop cars). The driver did manage to stop without hitting all the racers pouring across, but it was a close thing.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Civil or BTP contact Network Rail control to request a stop on trains, that is passed to the controlling signaller who will replace signals in the area and advise drivers if a caution or block is required.

BTP are generally okay when if comes fo going lineside, civils however seem to think the railway is like a road and wander on without telling us.

Police will NEVER interfere with signalling equipment.

When I worked in the accidents section (o.k. over 50 years ago) there was a minor collision in carriage sidings at Luton which a passing (borough) constable witnessed.
He took it upon himself to enter the nearby signal box, and started to pull levers and looking to see what happened 'to make sure that they were working correctly'. Some trains were held by adverse signals for regulation. Because of inter-locking there was no inherent danger if those signals were cleared but it did cause a bit of mayhem...

 

[najaB]

No idea why it happened but the police officers would not have interfered with the equipment in order to display a red signal.

What's the likelihood that they would have used a SPT to contact the signaller and request that trains be stopped?

 

[Mojo]

What's the likelihood that they would have used a SPT to contact the signaller and request that trains be stopped?

Police officers would not go on the track, as identified up thread, their control room would contact the appropriate Network Rail control, and if the request is deemed proportionate by the applicable person in the control room, the appropriate arrangements would be made with the controlling signaller.

 

[najaB]

Police officers would not go on the track, as identified up thread, their control room would contact the appropriate Network Rail control, and if the request is deemed proportionate by the applicable person in the control room, the appropriate arrangements would be made with the controlling signaller.

I was assuming from the description in the OP that the signal was at/near the end of the platform.

 

[stut]

Maybe it was speeding?

 

[Gloster]

As I have mentioned in another thread, nearly forty years ago there was a story about a local constabulary policeman being on the line for some reason. He saw a HST approaching at speed, probably somewhere around 80 mph., and so stood in the four-foot with his arm outstretched and the palm facing the train (as he would do to stop a car). At the last minute he had to dive into the cess.

 

[Signal_Box]

When I worked in the accidents section (o.k. over 50 years ago) there was a minor collision in carriage sidings at Luton which a passing (borough) constable witnessed.
He took it upon himself to enter the nearby signal box, and started to pull levers and looking to see what happened 'to make sure that they were working correctly'. Some trains were held by adverse signals for regulation. Because of inter-locking there was no inherent danger if those signals were cleared but it did cause a bit of mayhem...

I’d suggest that Constable would be looking at a charge these days.

Police officers would not go on the track, as identified up thread, their control room would contact the appropriate Network Rail control, and if the request is deemed proportionate by the applicable person in the control room, the appropriate arrangements would be made with the controlling signaller.

Indeed, even the fire service have a job getting the OLE turned off sometimes.

 

[Geeves]

The police would not interfere with any equipment in the first instance nor would they have the equipment to “throw signals to danger” the signals would be at danger by the signaller whom would be aware the police are on or about the track anyway hence the reason for stopping the train at the red signal

I am well aware of how things work on the railway, and as for the signaler being aware of who was on the line, I have been involved in lots of incidents where the signaler has no idea where or who is on the line be it BTP or regular police, and the signals just get replaced everywhere till some form of communication is found, which could well be what happened here

 

[GodAtum]

I was on a train once where a murder suspect (I think) was arrested. The train stopped at West Hampstead (I think; might have been Cricklewood) and the driver said there was a problem with the doors and essentially to be patient.

Meanwhile I saw him talking with someone who I now know to be undercover police and while I couldn't hear exactly what was going on, it was enough that I could guess something exciting was about to happen.

About 5 minutes later armed police stormed the rear of the train, suspect arrested, and we're on our way. I started videoing towards end of the storming, although in truth it is not very interesting other than "proof" this happened.

There doesn't seem to be a way to quickly upload videos here and I can't be bothered to go through rigmarole of a youtube account for this, but for the next week it's downloadable at https://filebin.net/59dv2enoj3jbeux0

Edit: think it must be this case, the timing fits (but not the image of the 319 )

Interesting! What time of night was this?

 

[Haywain]

Nothing new either. See sections 38-40 in the this, Report on the Double Collision that occurred on 25th June 1976 at Luton .

I saw that happen!

 

[David57]

I saw that happen!

I was there as well!

 

[Haywain]

I was there as well!

Were you? I don't remember that!

 

[MP33]

When I was at college another student told a story of the Police entering a train late at night and questioning the passengers. There had been a murder in a house near the station.

The crime which was unsolved was a local businessman being shot by a hit man. I had a relative who after being made redundant from a large employer went and worked for the murdered man as a consultant. He said that after his death the business fell to pieces and he left shortly after the murder.

 

[IanXC]

Police officers would not go on the track, as identified up thread, their control room would contact the appropriate Network Rail control, and if the request is deemed proportionate by the applicable person in the control room, the appropriate arrangements would be made with the controlling signaller.

*should* not go on the track...

 

[Western Sunset]

Perhaps we shouldn't watch too many reruns of "Heartbeat".

 

[krus_aragon]

Maybe it was speeding?

View attachment 113645

Here's the obligatory link to a youtube video of a BR train being puled over by the police...