Potentially three people hit by train Between Bedford - Luton (25/01)

[HowardGWR]

Mod Note: Split from this thread

I note that today there are, sadly, perhaps 'three under'. I also noted that TOC tweets speak of 'hit by train', so someone is not following the earlier quoted advice.

 

[Mojo]

I note that today there are, sadly, perhaps 'three under'. I also noted that TOC tweets speak of 'hit by train', so someone is not following the earlier quoted advice.

lndeed, the East Midlands website is saying that the line is closed Bedford -> Luton because of a "person hit by a train."

 

[urpert]

Thameslink still in a complete mess. Currently sitting on a Sevenoaks train at Blackfriars - we are 37 minutes late and apparently holding here 'for a member of train crew' (and presumably holding up everything in the core behind us. Doesn't fill you with confidence for the recovery plans when the new timetable is in place. (I'm surprised they haven't kicked us off and dumped it into the siding, though that may still happen.)
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And that's exactly what they've done. There's also a northbound 387 that hasn't moved in all the time we've been here.

 

[father_jack]

Thameslink still in a complete mess. Currently sitting on a Sevenoaks train at Blackfriars - we are 37 minutes late and apparently holding here 'for a member of train crew' (and presumably holding up everything in the core behind us. Doesn't fill you with confidence for the recovery plans when the new timetable is in place. (I'm surprised they haven't kicked us off and dumped it into the siding, though that may still happen.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And that's exactly what they've done. There's also a northbound 387 that hasn't moved in all the time we've been here.

1P64 struck a "person" at Leagrave around 1805 according to magic box.

 

[Deepgreen]

Horrible - one is bad enough, but three (if true) must be virtually career-ending for the poor driver through trauma.

 

[Blamethrower]

there are no reports of 3 people being hit. It is just the 1 woman that has been hit at Leagrave.

Quite a few of these incidents happen at Leagrave, wonder what's wrong with that town that makes people want to kill themselves.......

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You could ask the same question about Surbiton, Woking and other locations too, where trains pass through at moderately high speed.

This is the time of year when you have longish nights, little sun and all of the bills from the festive period are landing on the doormats, it's also rather oddly the peak time for divorce, so not much to be cheerful about and for some it's all too much to bear.

 

[asylumxl]

there are no reports of 3 people being hit. It is just the 1 woman that has been hit at Leagrave.

Quite a few of these incidents happen at Leagrave, wonder what's wrong with that town that makes people want to kill themselves.......

I'm inclined to say it's to do with the line speed and lack of staff more than anything else. Borehamwood and Mill Hill Broadway have similar issues on the same line.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I'm inclined to say it's to do with the line speed and lack of staff more than anything else. Borehamwood and Mill Hill Broadway have similar issues on the same line.

In fairness to Thameslink (GTR) - the surveillance CCTV operators do their best to watch out for vulnerable folk - and there are documented examples of them picking up trends - and sending someone up (even ticket office staff) to check out on people - at these stations.

Seems a trend though for individuals to go to "quieter" locations on fast moving sections of the network. (as opposed to somewhere like - my local St Albans) where there are always (a) passengers (b) staff around 24/7 .....

We can all help by looking out for people who need support.

 

[fergusjbend]

Over the years steps have been taken to make suicide more difficult than it used to be. OTC drugs such as paracetamol are only available in small quantities. Catalytic converters and diesel engines produce much less CO. Natural gas has replaced town gas. Etc, etc. All this means that the railway is now one of the most accessible means of self-destruction. Clearly more can be done to make the system more secure - look how rare suicides are on HS1 - but at a considerable cost.

 

[Bald Rick]

Over the years steps have been taken to make suicide more difficult than it used to be. OTC drugs such as paracetamol are only available in small quantities. Catalytic converters and diesel engines produce much less CO. Natural gas has replaced town gas. Etc, etc. All this means that the railway is now one of the most accessible means of self-destruction. Clearly more can be done to make the system more secure - look how rare suicides are on HS1 - but at a considerable cost.

Still, suicides on the railway as a proportion of total suicides has been broadly static for years. (I can't find the source, but it is official somewhere).

 

[Hairy Bear]

Still, suicides on the railway as a proportion of total suicides has been broadly static for years. (I can't find the source, but it is official somewhere).

2014 was around 300 , 2015 was up to 340 if I remenber rightly. And it was one woman on their own monday night not 3.

 

[ComUtoR]

2014/2015

Suicides
Fatality 293
Major Injury 37 attempted suicides
Minor Injury 937 attempted suicides

Source :
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ta/file/487497/rail-trends-factsheet-2015.pdf

 

[Antman]

Over the years steps have been taken to make suicide more difficult than it used to be. OTC drugs such as paracetamol are only available in small quantities. Catalytic converters and diesel engines produce much less CO. Natural gas has replaced town gas. Etc, etc. All this means that the railway is now one of the most accessible means of self-destruction. Clearly more can be done to make the system more secure - look how rare suicides are on HS1 - but at a considerable cost.

The lack of stations on HS1 obviously helps, only Stratford and Ebbsfleet offer easy access to fast moving trains, but there really is no realistic way of making the rest of the network so secure. Apparently the lines out of Paddington have by far the highest suicide rate and the number of quiet stations with fast trains passing through every few minutes must be a significant factor?

 

[Haywain]

I also noted that TOC tweets speak of 'hit by train', so someone is not following the earlier quoted advice.

The earlier advice has changed within the last couple of weeks, and a "person hit by a train" is now the correct terminology.

Quite a few of these incidents happen at Leagrave, wonder what's wrong with that town that makes people want to kill themselves.......

Leagrave is a part of Luton, and I can only speculate that the reason Leagrave has a few such incidents is that some of the town's less affluent estates are not too far away from the station. This happens in spite of the station having gatelines and being staffed through the day.

The lack of stations on HS1 obviously helps, only Stratford and Ebbsfleet offer easy access to fast moving trains, but there really is no realistic way of making the rest of the network so secure.

What really benefits HS1 is that there are no fast trains passing through platforms. On lines such as the East Coast Main Lines, I think there are more of these incidents at stations where there are fast line platforms than those where there are only slow line platforms.

 

[DarloRich]

In fairness to Thameslink (GTR)

We can all help by looking out for people who need support.

Well said. If you see someone you are worried about tell station staff asap.

 

[QueensCurve]

there are no reports of 3 people being hit. It is just the 1 woman that has been hit at Leagrave.

Quite a few of these incidents happen at Leagrave, wonder what's wrong with that town that makes people want to kill themselves.......

I have formed the impression that Twyford is a black spot for such events.
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1P64 struck a "person" at Leagrave around 1805 according to magic box.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C60151/2016/01/25/advanced

 

[#Vlad]

What really benefits HS1 is that there are no fast trains passing through platforms. On lines such as the East Coast Main Lines, I think there are more of these incidents at stations where there are fast line platforms than those where there are only slow line platforms.

Having driven on both, and been involved in one suicide, my experience is that jumping off a platform was the way to go, thus helping us on HS1. However, 2 jumpers in the last year by trespassing onto plain line in Kent shows that word might be getting out!

While it's sad, it could be worse; generally these people are not taking a bunch of others with them, although the way the railway deals with the aftermath could perhaps be quicker, more effective, and better communicated?

 

[HowardGWR]

Apparently the lines out of Paddington have by far the highest suicide rate and the number of quiet stations with fast trains passing through every few minutes must be a significant factor?

I have wondered whether there could be an ethnic reason for the number on lines out through Slough. The stats do not reveal these data, although I assume the police are recording such. I'm thinking of 'forced marriage' and other such reasons for unhappiness and despair. Perhaps the Samaritans may have insight.

 

[asylumxl]

I have wondered whether there could be an ethnic reason for the number on lines out through Slough. The stats do not reveal these data, although I assume the police are recording such. I'm thinking of 'forced marriage' and other such reasons for unhappiness and despair. Perhaps the Samaritans may have insight.

Leagrave is a part of Luton, and I can only speculate that the reason Leagrave has a few such incidents is that some of the town's less affluent estates are not too far away from the station. This happens in spite of the station having gatelines and being staffed through the day.

So suicides are down to being poor or ethnic. Wow, someone should tell the many well off white folk who commit suicide.

 

[Haywain]

So suicides are down to being poor or ethnic. Wow, someone should tell the many well off white folk who commit suicide.

Actually, my point about less affluent estates was that these can also have a higher proportion of people in social housing for reasons of (mental) health issues as much as economic reasons. I have no idea whether there is any relationship between such matters but Radlett and Harpenden, which are both considered well off, don't seem to have as many suicide incidents.

 

[HowardGWR]

So suicides are down to being poor or ethnic. Wow, someone should tell the many well off white folk who commit suicide.

I knew someone (it's unfortunate, but there) would not read the posts concerned properly and leap in, inappropriately. 'Wondering' and 'speculating' are not synonyms for 'stating a fact'.

They are invitations to someone who may know about an issue to respond if they have the knowledge.

 

[asylumxl]

I knew someone (it's unfortunate, but there) would not read the posts concerned properly and leap in, inappropriately. 'Wondering' and 'speculating' are not synonyms for 'stating a fact'.

They are invitations to someone who may know about an issue to respond if they have the knowledge.

I read it, thank you.

I just personally feel that your post is implying there's a link between a high incidence of railway fatalities in the Slough area and the local ethnic demographic. The reference to forced marriage part particularly feels like an ethnic stereotype.

Mental health issues effect people indiscriminately of creed, class or race. The causes can not be so easily pinned to such criteria.

I think you may find correlation, but that's not necessarily the cause of the correlation. I honestly imagine that you'd find more correlation between linespeed and frequency of trains than anything else for hotspots.

 

[infobleep]

The earlier advice has changed within the last couple of weeks, and a "person hit by a train" is now the correct terminology.


Leagrave is a part of Luton, and I can only speculate that the reason Leagrave has a few such incidents is that some of the town's less affluent estates are not too far away from the station. This happens in spite of the station having gatelines and being staffed through the day.

What really benefits HS1 is that there are no fast trains passing through platforms. On lines such as the East Coast Main Lines, I think there are more of these incidents at stations where there are fast line platforms than those where there are only slow line platforms.

That's definitely the issue at Surbiton on platform 2.

 

[Mojo]

I have wondered whether there could be an ethnic reason for the number on lines out through Slough. The stats do not reveal these data, although I assume the police are recording such. I'm thinking of 'forced marriage' and other such reasons for unhappiness and despair. Perhaps the Samaritans may have insight.

That was always my understanding for the incidents in the Southall area.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/abus...soaring-toll-of-railway-suicides-6614996.html

 

[asylumxl]

That was always my understanding for the incidents in the Southall area.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/abus...soaring-toll-of-railway-suicides-6614996.html

I'd take that with a mountain of salt. An activist group makes the claim without an official or even cited source. It also dubiously changes context throughout, for example early on it implies the numbers of suicides are for Southall then later correctly states they're for the entire stretch from Paddington.

Besides, the Ever Lowering Standard is hardly known for its good journalism. Also it's a 9 year old source.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Well said. If you see someone you are worried about tell station staff asap.

Or a member of train crew who can radio the issue in and maybe (a) get some staff there PDQ (b) Get the signal person to stop / caution trains if person is on - or likely to be - on / near the railway.

Better a few delays to save a life. No one is going to worry about a well intentioned reaction.

 

[HowardGWR]

I read it, thank you.

I just personally feel that your post is implying there's a link between a high incidence of railway fatalities in the Slough area and the local ethnic demographic. The reference to forced marriage part particularly feels like an ethnic stereotype.

Mental health issues effect people indiscriminately of creed, class or race. The causes can not be so easily pinned to such criteria.

I think you may find correlation, but that's not necessarily the cause of the correlation. I honestly imagine that you'd find more correlation between linespeed and frequency of trains than anything else for hotspots.

That last may be true; again, the stats would possibly reveal that. We have some police officers on here and I had wondered whether they could have some view, perhaps based on information documents that may have been circulated. Their recorded experience has always been most interesting when they post on these subjects.

 

[ComUtoR]

An overarching trend amongst suicide is that is it male dominated.

http://www.samaritans.org/sites/def...h-96/files/Suicide_statistics_report_2015.pdf

 

[TomBoyd]

While it's sad, it could be worse; generally these people are not taking a bunch of others with them, although the way the railway deals with the aftermath could perhaps be quicker, more effective, and better communicated?

Just my two cents on this issue, I'm a signaller, and service recovery is our second priority after a suicide, but we struggle without information from the TOC.

In the opening period after a suicide, it's impossible to give any time related information as to when trains are going to get moving, as we don't know when we can get a train to examine to see if there are unaffected lines. We're lucky enough that there are 4 lines throughout the northern part of the Thameslink route, and we were able to get the slow lines open on monday, but as to when it was going to happen, it could be 15 minutes or an hour, so not much information CAN come forth to start with.

Once the service starts to resume, we can only act on the information the TOCs give us, which on monday was sparse, ineffective, and late.

I do my best to communicate with drivers during incidents like these, but it can be very difficult (and in general, drivers are very understanding) when you've got anywhere up to 30 trains on the panel, to tell each and every one the up to the minute information.