Promo tickets puttingvthe black dot on tickets (VTEC)

[robbeech]

A Friend of mine has travelled to London today from Worksop and is returning later using a pair of 1st Advances bought in November during a promotional deal. He has collected the tickets at Worksop and they’ve printed the black dot in the top corner that you get (or a D) for rail card discounted tickets. He holds no railcard, nor does the ticket have any such discount. One assumes that promotional discounted tickets (these were about £15 each I believe) prints this but the Northern guard on his connecting train to retford this morning stated it means there is a railcard so he needed to see one. After further checks no further action was taken although who knows what will happen on the return trip.
Does anyone know if it’s normal for the ticket to be printed with this mark and if so was this likeky to be a one off error from a northern guard (it was 0600) or whether this is a machine error. It was on one of the brand new machines at Worksop.

 

[ainsworth74]

Does anyone know if it’s normal for the ticket to be printed with this mark and if so was this likeky to be a one off error from a northern guard (it was 0600) or whether this is a machine error. It was on one of the brand new machines at Worksop.

I've had numerous VTEC tickets with non-railcard discounts print with the black dot. So far no one has ever made an issue of it (but it's only been VTEC that have been doing the gripping as they've not been &Connections). I believe that even with a black dot details of the discount usually print. I.e. if it was a railcard it would still stay which railcard it was.

 

[alistairlees]

If any discount (not just a railcard) is applied then the black circle is printed. The only exception is where it's a child ticket, in which case it's the black diamond. And if the child fare has a discount too (e.g. because of a railcard) then both the black circle and the black diamond are printed.

There are many reasons for a discount other than a railcard - e.g. public promotional % off; GroupSave / Small Group; corporate discounts.

It would have been better if there was something specific to railcards, so that the prompt to action was clear and indisputable and didn't lead to situations like this.

 

[robbeech]

I assumed it was perfectly normal and just a misunderstanding by a Guard on a non VTEC service, Northern in this case though it could easily have been anyone else I suppose.
I’ve never witnessed this myself as I’ve never managed to find use for any of the promotional tickets so have only seen it with my railcard discount (two together).

 

[Wallsendmag]

The black dot means a discount has been applied not necessarily a railcard.

 

[ainsworth74]

The black dot means a discount has been applied not necessarily a railcard.

But of course it, understandably considering it's probably most often seen in a railcard context, prompts staff to think about checking that the discount is being used legitimately i.e. that a valid railcard is held. I mean why else mark the ticket with something if you're not trying to attract any revenue check's attention to the fact that there's a discount?

 

[alistairlees]

But of course it, understandably considering it's probably most often seen in a railcard context, prompts staff to think about checking that the discount is being used legitimately i.e. that a valid railcard is held. I mean why else mark the ticket with something if you're not trying to attract any revenue check's attention to the fact that there's a discount?

Indeed. The point I was making earlier was exactly that.

The symbols (if that's what we have) should be something like:
- black circle - railcard discount - request this to be shown
- black square - non-railcard discount - no need to ask for anything
- black diamond - child discount - check age

 

[Paul Kelly]

I mean why else mark the ticket with something if you're not trying to attract any revenue check's attention to the fact that there's a discount?

There's a number of things about the design of the new tickets that make me think the people designing it didn't really understand the distinction between (a) the railcard or discount authority used to obtain a discount, and (b) the passenger status as printed on the ticket. They are two different things.

Really what they should have is a list of passenger status codes that require a railcard or discount authority to be presented for inspection (e.g. NSE, CHNSE for respectively adult and child tickets discounted by a Network Railcard) and only show the black circle for tickets with those status codes, rather than showing it for every ticket with a non-blank status code.

 

[yorkie]

A Friend of mine has travelled to London today from Worksop and is returning later using a pair of 1st Advances bought in November during a promotional deal. He has collected the tickets at Worksop and they’ve printed the black dot in the top corner that you get (or a D) for rail card discounted tickets.

That is normal

He holds no railcard, nor does the ticket have any such discount. One assumes that promotional discounted tickets (these were about £15 each I believe) prints this but the Northern guard on his connecting train to retford this morning stated it means there is a railcard so he needed to see one.

The Guard was incorrect.

After further checks no further action was taken although who knows what will happen on the return trip.
Does anyone know if it’s normal for the ticket to be printed with this mark and if so was this likeky to be a one off error from a northern guard (it was 0600) or whether this is a machine error. It was on one of the brand new machines at Worksop.

Totally normal for the black dot to be printed on these tickets. Not a machine error.

The mistake was by the Guard.