Purchased railcard ticket and got caught West Midlands

[sky86]

Hi,
I wanted some opinions of what might happen....

So last month I purchased a JCR railcard return ticket from London to Birmingham but dont own one (only have jobcentre bus&tram card).
Had planned to travel the day after but parents called to say they were locked out of the house, so I panicked and quickly left (takes 5~6hrs to get there)
Got caught by the inspectors and they questioned me, the train was full and I felt intimidated, embarrassed, panicked and stupidly lied to them and felt extremely anxious & regretful.
I didnt want to say I was unemployed & receiving Universal credit due to health reasons. They asked me if I had money for a ticket and I stupidly says "yes" from embarrassment, even though I didnt....I asked them if I can pay the difference of the ticket or buy a new ticket from them but the Inspectors said no need but told me someone will get in touch, and may get a fine if there's a problem (but no mention of prosecution).

2 weeks later got a letter to provide optional "further mitigating factors that may influence any decision"
So in a panic, I wrote on the back of the page what I had done wrong and sincerely apologising for the incident and explained the situation. I wrote that I regret lying to the inspectors, not buying a valid ticket and wrote truthfully. Also wrote I'll be purchasing the correct ticket & mentioned no use of the return ticket as I knew it was wrong. As I didn't get a penalty notice but a letter to mitigate, does this mean it will be taken more seriously and possibly court?

I did't know these forums existed, I wish searched online before writing and sending off the letter....
Also didn't know about writing/ suggesting the incident to be settled outside of court or the possibility for me to pay a settlement fee....I wish I wrote it on the letter
I've sent the letter back few days ago and waiting for a reply & been extremely anxious, especially after reading posts on here of being prosecuted...I know it was extremely stupid and shameful of me but still feel anxious waiting for their reply...

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,
I wanted some opinions of what might happen....

So last month I purchased a JCR railcard return ticket from London to Birmingham but dont own one (only have jobcentre bus&tram card).
Had planned to travel the day after but parents called to say they were locked out of the house, so I panicked and quickly left (takes 5~6hrs to get there)
Got caught by the inspectors and they questioned me, the train was full and I felt intimidated, embarrassed, panicked and stupidly lied to them and felt extremely anxious & regretful.
I didnt want to say I was unemployed & receiving Universal credit due to health reasons. They asked me if I had money for a ticket and I stupidly says "yes" from embarrassment, even though I didnt....I asked them if I can pay the difference of the ticket or buy a new ticket from them but the Inspectors said no need but told me someone will get in touch, and may get a fine if there's a problem (but no mention of prosecution).

2 weeks later got a letter to provide optional "further mitigating factors that may influence any decision"
So in a panic, I wrote on the back of the page what I had done wrong and sincerely apologising for the incident and explained the situation. I wrote that I regret lying to the inspectors, not buying a valid ticket and wrote truthfully. Also wrote I'll be purchasing the correct ticket & mentioned no use of the return ticket as I knew it was wrong. As I didn't get a penalty notice but a letter to mitigate, does this mean it will be taken more seriously and possibly court?

I did't know these forums existed, I wish searched online before writing and sending off the letter....
Also didn't know about writing/ suggesting the incident to be settled outside of court or the possibility for me to pay a settlement fee....I wish I wrote it on the letter
I've sent the letter back few days ago and waiting for a reply & been extremely anxious, especially after reading posts on here of being prosecuted...I know it was extremely stupid and shameful of me but still feel anxious waiting for their reply...

Welcome to the forum - yes bad luck you did not know about this forum before - but it's still not too late for people to help you out as things progress, but as you have sent back your initial response you will have to wait not to see what they say in reply to that.

What Rail company are you dealing with over this (ie who wrote to you)?

I will try and answer some of your points in the hope it helps you understand the process and know what to expect next

They asked me if I had money for a ticket and I stupidly says "yes" from embarrassment, even though I didnt....I asked them if I can pay the difference of the ticket or buy a new ticket from them but the Inspectors said no need but told me someone will get in touch, and may get a fine if there's a problem (but no mention of prosecution).

They would not want yo let you pay the difference because fare dodgers would only pay when asked and people know their ticket is not checked on every journey

So in a panic, I wrote on the back of the page what I had done wrong and sincerely apologising for the incident and explained the situation. I wrote that I regret lying to the inspectors, not buying a valid ticket and wrote truthfully. Also wrote I'll be purchasing the correct ticket & mentioned no use of the return ticket as I knew it was wrong.

This is the sort of reply that the forum generally recommends people to write (have a look at other threads), so at least you were on the right lines in what you said

As I didn't get a penalty notice but a letter to mitigate, does this mean it will be taken more seriously and possibly court?

Not all train companies (or all staff) can issue Penalty Fares. When they take your details there is always the risk it is escalated to a court prosecution. But this can often be avoided by engaging with them, replying as you have done, and seeking to get an out of court settlement. With help from this Forum there is a good chance you can achieve that - which should be your objective as the least worst outcome you can get.

Also didn't know about writing/ suggesting the incident to be settled outside of court or the possibility for me to pay a settlement fee....I wish I wrote it on the letter

When you hear back from them, if they don't offer that to you, it would be possible to write again and try to ask for that, instead of court action. I am sure people here would help you get another letter, if that is needed, as good as it can be.

I've sent the letter back few days ago and waiting for a reply & been extremely anxious, especially after reading posts on here of being prosecuted..

Most cases on here where people end up being prosecuted is because they have not engaged wit the process, replied to the letter (which you have done)

At this stage the best thing for you to do is to try not to feel anxious, and wait for their reply. Then head back here for more advice on what do next when you hear from them

What you can also do is:

- save up so you can pay any out of court settlement that gets offered (this could be at least £150 or more)
- if you are entitled to one, get a Railcard that you can use to legitimately reduce your train fares
- make sure you 100% buy the correct train ticket for all travel.

 

[sky86]

Welcome to the forum - yes bad luck you did not know about this forum before - but it's still not too late for people to help you out as things progress, but as you have sent back your initial response you will have to wait not to see what they say in reply to that.

What Rail company are you dealing with over this (ie who wrote to you)?

I will try and answer some of your points in the hope it helps you understand the process and know what to expect next


They would not want yo let you pay the difference because fare dodgers would only pay when asked and people know their ticket is not checked on every journey


This is the sort of reply that the forum generally recommends people to write (have a look at other threads), so at least you were on the right lines in what you said


Not all train companies (or all staff) can issue Penalty Fares. When they take your details there is always the risk it is escalated to a court prosecution. But this can often be avoided by engaging with them, replying as you have done, and seeking to get an out of court settlement. With help from this Forum there is a good chance you can achieve that - which should be your objective as the least worst outcome you can get.



When you hear back from them, if they don't offer that to you, it would be possible to write again and try to ask for that, instead of court action. I am sure people here would help you get another letter, if that is needed, as good as it can be.



Most cases on here where people end up being prosecuted is because they have not engaged wit the process, replied to the letter (which you have done)

At this stage the best thing for you to do is to try not to feel anxious, and wait for their reply. Then head back here for more advice on what do next when you hear from them

What you can also do is:

- save up so you can pay any out of court settlement that gets offered (this could be at least £150 or more)
- if you are entitled to one, get a Railcard that you can use to legitimately reduce your train fares
- make sure you 100% buy the correct train ticket for all travel.

Thank you WesternLancer.
The letter was from West Midlands Trains.

Also, stupidly and very regrettably, I've done the same thing few times by purchasing the discounted rail tickets... are they able to check my purchase history (used West Midlands railway app and Lner to book tickets)? When the investigators checked they said the tickets were trainline tickets even though I purchased it from the WMR app.... Some of the tickets I didnt even scan on the return journey's, would they search it out?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you WesternLancer.
The letter was from West Midlands Trains.

Also, stupidly and very regrettably, I've done the same thing few times by purchasing the discounted rail tickets... are they able to check my purchase history (used West Midlands railway app and Lner to book tickets)? When the investigators checked they said the tickets were trainline tickets even though I purchased it from the WMR app.... Some of the tickets I didnt even scan on the return journey's, would they search it out?

Yes, they can check all on line ticket purchases whoever you bought from (for the purposes of detecting crime and deliberate fare evasion is a criminal offence)

They will probably check this - BUT there are many cases on here where people say the same as you, have evaded other fares before being caught, and still reach out of court settlements. They might expect you to pay for the other fares evaded that they find from your 'digital finger prints'.

This is precisely why they referred your case for investigating - the persons on the train will have worked out you had probably done this before and just allowing you to pay the different on that one journey would, in their view, not be a sufficient deterrent to prevent you evading fares again in future. I am sure you can see it form their point of view.

But again, you will have to wait for the reply from West Midlands Trains and head back for more advice then on how to take things forward to get the least worst outcome for you.

 

[sky86]

Yes, they can check all on line ticket purchases whoever you bought from (for the purposes of detecting crime and deliberate fare evasion is a criminal offence)

They will probably check this - BUT there are many cases on here where people say the same as you and still reach out of court settlements. They might expect you to pay for the other fares evaded that they find from your 'digital finger prints'

But again, you will have to wait for the reply from West Midlands Trains and head back for more advice then on how to take things forward to get the least worst outcome for you.

Thank you for your advice!
I just really hope it can be resolved quickly & out of court.... just worried the settlement might be pretty high.... but I guess I'll need to wait and see like you said

 

[spag23]

As no-one has mentioned it yet on this thread....
Make sure that any correspondence they send will reach you. Don't move house or disappear overseas without setting up forwarding.
There have been cases on this forum recently where company letters have not reached the passenger, and things progress automatically to Court.

 

[sky86]

As no-one has mentioned it yet on this thread....
Make sure that any correspondence they send will reach you. Don't move house or disappear overseas without setting up forwarding.
There have been cases on this forum recently where company letters have not reached the passenger, and things progress automatically to Court.

Thanks! Just hoping they reply so I can get this incident solved before end of next week as I'll be away for xmas& new years....
A little worried the letter will arrive when I'm away.....

 

[30907]

Thanks! Just hoping they reply so I can get this incident solved before end of next week as I'll be away for xmas& new years....
A little worried the letter will arrive when I'm away.....

The train company will make some allowance for postal delays over Christmas anyway. Is there someone you could trust to look out for your mail?

 

[sky86]

So... Its been a week since my post and about 12 days since I wrote back to the prosecutions office...
Been anxious and tried to look up ways I could find out about my case and managed to search on IRCAS and put in my reference number....
I haven't received a letter yet, but found my settlement fee.... I was hoping it would be around £100 but just found out its £194!
I looked through all of my tickets and found I have £94 underpaid tickets which makes sense (but still hurts that fees are £100- lesson learnt).

On one of the journey's I had to pay extra/ excess fees £3.90 on the train to the ticket officer, and this has not been accounted for (taken out of the £194), how do I let them know & show proof I did pay extra for my ticket to have been 100% valid.

There were other journey's where friend from abroad came and I purchased two tickets (one with discount and one without) how do they know whether I used it or a friend used the ticket- there's no way for them to confirm right....? Will it be silly if I said I purchased the same journey twice, but I did not use the discounted ticket but someone else did or is it not worth it as the ticket difference was £12?

Finally, I told them that they had my name wrong, but under the online system they still have not changed it so it's a different name, should I just leave it or contact them again?

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for updating us.

It's difficult for us to be able to give advice because we haven't seen any of the paper work relating to your case. What isn't clear to me is whether the £194 relates to all of the incidents or whether there are still further investigations taking place.

Frankly, an administration fee of £100 on top of the fares owed is a bargain. You deliberately avoided paying the correct fare on several occasion and lied to the inspectors when you were caught. Many would argue that this should have ended up in the Magistrates Court where there would have been very little change (if any) out of £500 in fines, surcharges, court costs and compensation.

I would not contact WMT as you could further incriminate yourself. Wait for their letter about next steps.

 

[sky86]

Thanks for updating us.

It's difficult for us to be able to give advice because we haven't seen any of the paper work relating to your case. What isn't clear to me is whether the £194 relates to all of the incidents or whether there are still further investigations taking place.

Frankly, an administration fee of £100 on top of the fares owed is a bargain. You deliberately avoided paying the correct fare on several occasion and lied to the inspectors when you were caught. Many would argue that this should have ended up in the Magistrates Court where there would have been very little change (if any) out of £500 in fines, surcharges, court costs and compensation.

I would not contact WMT as you could further incriminate yourself. Wait for their letter about next steps.

thanks for the advice. Just waiting on their letter... I just hope it arrives in the next few days as I will be away for 2 weeks for xmas & NY....

 

[Haywain]

There were other journey's where friend from abroad came and I purchased two tickets (one with discount and one without) how do they know whether I used it or a friend used the ticket- there's no way for them to confirm right....? Will it be silly if I said I purchased the same journey twice, but I did not use the discounted ticket but someone else did or is it not worth it as the ticket difference was £12?

As I read this, you're suggesting telling them something which is untrue to try and reduce what you have to pay. That would be very foolish. Similarly, quibbling over £3.90 really isn't worth the effort, as they are still at liberty to withdraw the offer and take you to court.

 

[WesternLancer]

thanks for the advice. Just waiting on their letter... I just hope it arrives in the next few days as I will be away for 2 weeks for xmas & NY....

If you are soon to go away - and you have not heard from them - does the IRCAS page you found allow you to make a payment? because if it does you may want to consider monitoring that and pay it at the last chance you have before you go away as a method of preventing the matter getting escalated whilst you are away. Keep proof of any payment you make (eg bank statement records, screen shots showing payment, and confirmation messages the system generates - assuming you can pay it via this method of course).

 

[sky86]

If you are soon to go away - and you have not heard from them - does the IRCAS page you found allow you to make a payment? because if it does you may want to consider monitoring that and pay it at the last chance you have before you go away as a method of preventing the matter getting escalated whilst you are away. Keep proof of any payment you make (eg bank statement records, screen shots showing payment, and confirmation messages the system generates - assuming you can pay it via this method of course).

I'm able to pay on the IRCAS page, so if the letter does not arrive before I go away, I'm planning on making the payment online.
But the online status does not have any dates/ deadlines for the payment.... As the settlement has been uploaded, I'm just hoping the letter will be here in the next couple of days.

 

[island]

I really wouldn’t recommend quibbling over that much, it could work against you.