Query regarding Off-peak fare validity

[Tetragon213]

A few days ago, I attended a "crack of dawn" work event in Manchester. Much to my surprise, it ended far earlier than I expected, and so I went to Piccadilly to catch the train back home, only to realise that the train I intended to catch was doing so a few minutes before 9:30, which put me in an awkward situation seeing as I had an Off-Peak ticket.

Before the train departed, I went to find the guard to discuss paying the difference for an anytime ticket (with a view to also getting a receipt for expenses purposes), and was surprised to be told (by the guard herself!) to instead buy an anytime single to the next station along (which was far cheaper than the difference for an anytime ticket), on the basis that on arrival (which was scheduled after 9:30), my off-peak ticket would then be valid.

Was the guard in the right, here? I was under the impression that my original off-peak ticket wouldn't have been on that train at all, seeing as it departed Manchester before 9:30, regardless of the "true" time of day.

 

[bcarmicle]

The guard may have been right, depending on the actual tickets involved (that said, I suspect she was probably right as if she was unsure the easy thing to do would have been to just sell you the ticket you asked for).

To correct a misunderstanding, Off-Peak tickets have different validity rules depending on the two letter restriction code printed on them. Your ticket may have been valid on trains where the departure time at any station was after 9:30; if so, you would have been starting your usage on that ticket at a later station and would thus have been fine.

 

[Watershed]

Some Off-Peak restrictions are based on the time that trains arrive or leave at specified stations (e.g. "not valid on trains timed to arrive at London Terminals before 10am"). In such cases, those restrictions usually apply regardless of where you board.

However if the restriction is simply something like "not valid before 09:30" then the guard's suggested approach would be entirely valid. You are effectively "throwing away" part of the ticket's validity by starting "late" at an intermediate station - where the train would presumably depart after 09:30. With your Anytime ticket until that station, you hold a valid ticket at all times so there is no issue.

This is quite a common way of minimising the cost of taking "shoulder"-peak trains such as the 09:25 CrossCountry service from Manchester Piccadilly southbound. It does all depend on the wording of the ticket's restriction code though.

 

[Tetragon213]

The guard may have been right, depending on the actual tickets involved (that said, I suspect she was probably right as if she was unsure the easy thing to do would have been to just sell you the ticket you asked for).

To correct a misunderstanding, Off-Peak tickets have different validity rules depending on the two letter restriction code printed on them. Your ticket may have been valid on trains where the departure time at any station was after 9:30; if so, you would have been starting your usage on that ticket at a later station and would thus have been fine.

Some Off-Peak restrictions are based on the time that trains arrive or leave at specified stations (e.g. "not valid on trains timed to arrive at London Terminals before 10am"). In such cases, those restrictions usually apply regardless of where you board.

However if the restriction is simply something like "not valid before 09:30" then the guard's suggested approach would be entirely valid. You are effectively "throwing away" part of the ticket's validity by starting "late" at an intermediate station - where the train would presumably depart after 09:30. With your Anytime ticket until that station, you hold a valid ticket at all times so there is no issue.

This is quite a common way of minimising the cost of taking "shoulder"-peak trains such as the 09:25 CrossCountry service from Manchester Piccadilly southbound. It does all depend on the wording of the ticket's restriction code though.

Thank you both for helping clear that up. Having had a re-check of my ticket, it looks like the restriction code was "2V", which appears to indicate that the guard was indeed correct.

The train in question was indeed the 09:25 service southbound.