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Question for the OO crowd r.e. Mk.2 coaches...

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TheLancsNinja

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So after some questioning in a historic thread, I've now established that for my planned (eventual) layout, I need a 37 in RR livery (Bachmann have me covered there) plus 4 Mk.2A TSOs in RR colours (Bachmann again) and I also need a RR Mk.2A BSO... Which I can't seem to find for the life of me. Is there any RTR Mk.2A BSOs out there? Or are there coaches that could be easily modified to BSO standard?
 
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GusB

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So after some questioning in a historic thread, I've now established that for my planned (eventual) layout, I need a 37 in RR livery (Bachmann have me covered there) plus 4 Mk.2A TSOs in RR colours (Bachmann again) and I also need a RR Mk.2A BSO... Which I can't seem to find for the life of me. Is there any RTR Mk.2A BSOs out there? Or are there coaches that could be easily modified to BSO standard?
Hornby definitely made models of the early Mk2 coaches, but it was some time ago. Having had a quick look on a well-known online auction site, it would appear that Bachmann also made some, although I don't know if they're still in production. The latter will likely be more detailed.

Here's the Hornby version:


I don't know if this is a 2A or a 2z, but if you're not too fussed about that, there's an example here. I'm not connected with the seller in any way.


It's just a pity that it's not Mk1s that you're after! :)
 

43096

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So after some questioning in a historic thread, I've now established that for my planned (eventual) layout, I need a 37 in RR livery (Bachmann have me covered there) plus 4 Mk.2A TSOs in RR colours (Bachmann again) and I also need a RR Mk.2A BSO... Which I can't seem to find for the life of me. Is there any RTR Mk.2A BSOs out there? Or are there coaches that could be easily modified to BSO standard?
Had lost track of the original thread where you asked the question...

From memory those sets tended to have Mark 2A BFK vehicles (which were de-classified to standard class) rather than BSOs. Not sure if that helps with your project?
 

hexagon789

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Had lost track of the original thread where you asked the question...

From memory those sets tended to have Mark 2A BFK vehicles (which were de-classified to standard class) rather than BSOs. Not sure if that helps with your project?
BSOs were used as well.

The BFKs were originally declassified as Edge Hill felt they didn't offer enough Std Class accommodation otherwise!

Sets were originally BSO-3 TSO plus either a 4th TSO or a BFK but formations did vary.

Sample 1991 set formations:

LL21 - 9458, 5353, 5386, 5401, 17128
LL22 - 9435, 5385, 5266, 5304, 5366
LL24 - 5267, 5396, 9421, 5393, 17123
LL25 - 9419, 5505, 5491, 5316, 5432, 9424
Spares - 5271, 5282, 5354, 9417, 17118
 

TheLancsNinja

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Had lost track of the original thread where you asked the question...

From memory those sets tended to have Mark 2A BFK vehicles (which were de-classified to standard class) rather than BSOs. Not sure if that helps with your project?
Apologies, original thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ype-of-mk-1-2-rolling-stock-these-are.244768/

From the photos and descriptions online, I'm looking as part of my layout to replicate these services (apparently referred to as club trains - not sure what that means exactly) from the late 80s/early 90s that ran on the Manchester - Southport line. I'm no expert with rolling stock, hence so many dumb questions! But from those in the know it looks like the rakes were 4 Mk.2a TSOs and then a Mk.2a BSO, all in Regional Railways livery. I've managed to get my hands on a Bachmann 37422 which, in it's RR guise, I have pictures of working this service, but the coaching stock is something I want to get right.

I am also after replicating the semi-famous "Binliner" services that ran to Appley Bridge quarry down the line using PFA bogie flat wagons - https://paul3715.tripod.com/binliner.htm - but that is a problem for another day!
 

TheLancsNinja

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reddragon

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So after some questioning in a historic thread, I've now established that for my planned (eventual) layout, I need a 37 in RR livery (Bachmann have me covered there) plus 4 Mk.2A TSOs in RR colours (Bachmann again) and I also need a RR Mk.2A BSO... Which I can't seem to find for the life of me. Is there any RTR Mk.2A BSOs out there? Or are there coaches that could be easily modified to BSO standard?
 

sprinterguy

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I don't think Bachmann have produced the mark 2a BSO in Regional Railways livery, just the declassified BFK as an individual vehicle as linked above, and also previously as one half of a twin pack with a matching TSO.

Accurascale will be releasing later this year the one Regional Railways liveried Mark 2c BSO that was used in the Manchester loco-hauled trains:
 

reddragon

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I would say that AS are the way to go on Mk2b/c coaches. A little more ££ for so much extra detail & lights!
 

TheLancsNinja

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Thank you all, some really helpful pointers here - those Accurascale coaches look amazing it has to be said. Might see if I can get a blue-grey Mk.2a BSO and have a crack at repainting it as well; thank you all again!
 

reddragon

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Thank you all, some really helpful pointers here - those Accurascale coaches look amazing it has to be said. Might see if I can get a blue-grey Mk.2a BSO and have a crack at repainting it as well; thank you all again!
AS keep bringing out new liveries, just wait and they'll be announced once the first batch arrive due shortly.
 

sprinterguy

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AS keep bringing out new liveries, just wait and they'll be announced once the first batch arrive due shortly.
Though Accurascale are no use for Mk.2As.

I would say that AS are the way to go on Mk2b/c coaches. A little more ££ for so much extra detail & lights!
Indeed. I'll probably be taking on a Mk.2c TSO when they come out, seeing as Bachmann seem to be in no hurry to release additional Regional Railways liveried Mk.2a vehicles: I'm assuming an Accurascale vehicle won't look incongruous at one end of an otherwise Bachmann rake, as the Bachmanns are still fantastic models IMO.
 

61653 HTAFC

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RR also ran Mk 2 Brake vehicles (type unknown as its not my thing) from former NSE coaching stock. The red stripe was painted blue. Offers some variety!
I'm a little surprised that Accurascale haven't (thus far) announced this livery among their mk2 range, as I think there'd be reasonable demand for it. Maybe one for the future...

Tried to find examples of multiple units which got this treatment, all I can find is a few snippets on YouTube of a 304 (or possibly a 305) in "modified NSE" colours. Presumably no diesel units ever did, as I'm sure it would be documented somewhere.
 

43096

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Tried to find examples of multiple units which got this treatment, all I can find is a few snippets on YouTube of a 304 (or possibly a 305) in "modified NSE" colours. Presumably no diesel units ever did, as I'm sure it would be documented somewhere.
Definitely a 305. The 304s were all blue/grey until they went except for three or four that got the full Regional Railways treatment.
 

sprinterguy

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I'm a little surprised that Accurascale haven't (thus far) announced this livery among their mk2 range, as I think there'd be reasonable demand for it. Maybe one for the future...

Tried to find examples of multiple units which got this treatment, all I can find is a few snippets on YouTube of a 304 (or possibly a 305) in "modified NSE" colours. Presumably no diesel units ever did, as I'm sure it would be documented somewhere.
In terms of EMUs, as well as the 305s you mention there were certainly a couple of the 309s transferred to Manchester that received a variant of that approach, before they were repainted into RR North West 'Green stripe' livery, see photo here (not mine), for example:
 

6Gman

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Apologies, original thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ype-of-mk-1-2-rolling-stock-these-are.244768/

From the photos and descriptions online, I'm looking as part of my layout to replicate these services (apparently referred to as club trains - not sure what that means exactly) from the late 80s/early 90s that ran on the Manchester - Southport line. I'm no expert with rolling stock, hence so many dumb questions! But from those in the know it looks like the rakes were 4 Mk.2a TSOs and then a Mk.2a BSO, all in Regional Railways livery. I've managed to get my hands on a Bachmann 37422 which, in it's RR guise, I have pictures of working this service, but the coaching stock is something I want to get right.

I am also after replicating the semi-famous "Binliner" services that ran to Appley Bridge quarry down the line using PFA bogie flat wagons - https://paul3715.tripod.com/binliner.htm - but that is a problem for another day!
I can help with this bit!

"Club Trains" were started in I think pre-grouping days by the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway (and possibly the LNWR) to provide a premium service for businessmen travelling in to work in Manchester. There would literally be one or more distinctive "club cars" in the trains, available only to members (the rest of the train would be available to ordinary passengers). In later years they certainly ran from Blackpool, Southport and Llandudno to Manchester. There may also have been a Llandudno - Liverpool (and possibly others).

They gradually became more "ordinary" trains and in the early 1970s the only distinction of the Manchester-Llandudno service was that it was a DMU in D2 rather than D1 timings (so slightly faster). By the time of your loco-hauled trains they would have had no special distinction but "the club" or "club train" had just become a staff nickname for a slightly unusual (such as being loco-hauled) commuter service.
 

61653 HTAFC

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By the time of your loco-hauled trains they would have had no special distinction but "the club" or "club train" had just become a staff nickname for a slightly unusual (such as being loco-hauled) commuter service.
I certainly remember hearing staff refer to the FNW loco-hauled service between Chester/Greenbank and Blackpool/St. Annes as the "club train"... though as it used air-conditioned mk2s in FGW "Cigarette Packet" livery it was quite an upgrade compared to the usual 142!
 

CAF397

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The ex FGW 'fag packet' Mk2 coaches were employed on the Manchester/Crewe to Holyhead North Wales service with FNW, with a RES 47. Changed later to former Virgin Trains livery Mk2s.

The St Annes-Greenbank, Chester-Blackpool diagram used top and tail Fragonset 31s and debranded Intercity Swallow Mk2s.

I'm not sure the two ever mixed.

Pictures of RES+'fag packet' Mk2s on the North Wales diagram.


 
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DJ_K666

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I've seen Accurasxale's mk2 NIR coaches in the flesh, as it were, and they look phenomenal. I really hope it pushes Bachmann into producing some more 2A TSOs as I couldcdo with a handful of those in B/G. Not that my credit card won't spontaneously combust if I add any more preorders hehe
 

Wyrleybart

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Thank you all, some really helpful pointers here - those Accurascale coaches look amazing it has to be said. Might see if I can get a blue-grey Mk.2a BSO and have a crack at repainting it as well; thank you all again!
The AS products really are very good and very accurate. My advice would be to research what you would like then get on the Accuracale web page and pay a reservation for them. Athough they offer all sorts of payment options. Beware though because their stuff tends to sell out really quickly. The class 31s they offered last year are pretty much all sold out prior to production. Get your orders in, then if you don't want to keep them they will be salable on various selling sites.

The best thing about AS is the built in technology with all coaches having decoders and stayalives for the lighting, and indivdual numbers too.
 

TheLancsNinja

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I can help with this bit!

"Club Trains" were started in I think pre-grouping days by the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway (and possibly the LNWR) to provide a premium service for businessmen travelling in to work in Manchester. There would literally be one or more distinctive "club cars" in the trains, available only to members (the rest of the train would be available to ordinary passengers). In later years they certainly ran from Blackpool, Southport and Llandudno to Manchester. There may also have been a Llandudno - Liverpool (and possibly others).

They gradually became more "ordinary" trains and in the early 1970s the only distinction of the Manchester-Llandudno service was that it was a DMU in D2 rather than D1 timings (so slightly faster). By the time of your loco-hauled trains they would have had no special distinction but "the club" or "club train" had just become a staff nickname for a slightly unusual (such as being loco-hauled) commuter service.
Ahhh, I didn't know that - thank for the background!
The AS products really are very good and very accurate. My advice would be to research what you would like then get on the Accuracale web page and pay a reservation for them. Athough they offer all sorts of payment options. Beware though because their stuff tends to sell out really quickly. The class 31s they offered last year are pretty much all sold out prior to production. Get your orders in, then if you don't want to keep them they will be salable on various selling sites.

The best thing about AS is the built in technology with all coaches having decoders and stayalives for the lighting, and indivdual numbers too.
100%, I have preordered their 31 in RR colours, it looks amazing. If they turn their hand to Mk2a coaches you'd better believe I'll placing orders, they are really pushing the quality bar high. Other manufacturers need to try and match prices because AS offer unbeatable value for money compared to the likes of Hornby atm.
 

DJ_K666

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I've got a 31 plus 3 mk2Bs on order As well as 4 mk2Cs later in the year. That spreads the cost and allows my credit card to recover after each hit...
 
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Wyrleybart

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If they turn their hand to Mk2a coaches you'd better believe I'll placing orders, they are really pushing the quality bar high. Other manufacturers need to try and match prices because AS offer unbeatable value for money compared to the likes of Hornby atm.
Do you really need to have Mk2As or could you "get away" with some A/S Mk2Bs ?
I had some Bachmann Mk2As but sold them on as my scene is predominantly 1960s freight. I think that were I to do some LHCS wit hnewer than Mk1s, I would choose A/S
No affiliation though.
 

TheLancsNinja

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RR also ran Mk 2 Brake vehicles (type unknown as its not my thing) from former NSE coaching stock. The red stripe was painted blue. Offers some variety!

Credit on photo.

One on Ebay here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14465930...-hMO5ZXTw-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
On this, is that a BFK or a BSO it's trailing there? My coach recognition is dreadful, apologies...
Do you really need to have Mk2As or could you "get away" with some A/S Mk2Bs ?
I had some Bachmann Mk2As but sold them on as my scene is predominantly 1960s freight. I think that were I to do some LHCS wit hnewer than Mk1s, I would choose A/S
No affiliation though.
Ideally I'd like to be accurate but I'll see how I go, because those AS coaches do look amazing...
 

sprinterguy

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On this, is that a BFK or a BSO it's trailing there? My coach recognition is dreadful, apologies...
Looks to be a BFK. Beyond the yellow first class stripe visible on that photo I find it difficult to tell the two apart, as the Mark 2 and Mark 2A BSOs used the same window spacing as the BFKs.

Do you really need to have Mk2As or could you "get away" with some A/S Mk2Bs ?
I had some Bachmann Mk2As but sold them on as my scene is predominantly 1960s freight. I think that were I to do some LHCS wit hnewer than Mk1s, I would choose A/S
No affiliation though.
The Manchester area loco-hauled turns of the early 1990s predominantly used mark 2As. To the best of my knowledge it would be unusual to see more than one mark 2B or C vehicle in a rake, as there weren't many allocated to that fleet.
 
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TheLancsNinja

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Looks to be a BFK. Beyond the yellow first class stripe visible on that photo I find it difficult to tell the two apart, as the Mark 2 and Mark 2A BSOs used the same window spacing as the BFKs.


The Manchester area loco-hauled turns of the early 1990s predominantly used mark 2As. To the best of my knowledge it would be unusual to see more than one mark 2B or C vehicle in a rake, as there weren't many allocated to that fleet.
Lovely, thank you for the info and apologies to you all for the ceaseless questions!
 

DJ_K666

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Thank you all, some really helpful pointers here - those Accurascale coaches look amazing it has to be said. Might see if I can get a blue-grey Mk.2a BSO and have a crack at repainting it as well; thank you all again!
I had a bit of a kid in a sweet shop moment. I've now got 7 mk2 coaches (3x 2b and 4x 2C) on preordet along with a 31, a 50, a 37 and Deltic. My credit card is hurriedly being replenished

AIUI much of the difference between a mk2 and a mk2A was the brakes. Mk2 had vacuum brakes and a sliding door in the gangway, much like a mk1 and the 2A had air brakes and the end doors in the gangway that were all familiar with.

There might be other differences but j can't think of any right now.
 
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TheLancsNinja

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I had a bit of a kid in a sweet shop moment. I've now got 7 mk2 coaches (3x 2b and 4x 2C) on preordet along with a 31, a 50, a 37 and Deltic. My credit card is hurriedly being replenished

AIUI much of the difference between a mk2 and a mk2A was the brakes. Mk2 had vacuum brakes and a sliding door in the gangway, much like a mk1 and the 2A had air brakes and the end doors in the gangway that were all familiar with.

There might be other differences but j can't think of any right now.
Magic, thank you - the discovery journey continues! I always thought I'd be happy with something similar but as soon as I set to it, I figured I should get it right if things cost this much... Cheap it is not these days as a hobby; I bought a Class 4MT for £65 new about 20 years ago - oh how things change!
 
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