Rail journey planner I have created

[nathan9]

I've created a rudimentary rail journey planner based on the ATOC timetable feeds: gbrail.info. I know little about the UK rail system and would be interested in any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, or criticisms. By my checking, it does seem to conform to the Routeing Guide, although I do challenge anybody to find counterexamples. I also intend to incorporate live trains data, fares information, route maps and mileage, and to provide an API. Please let me know what might be useful and how the site could be improved. Thanks!

 

[wintonian]

It seems that it is not possible to travel from Queenstown Road(Battersea) (QRB) to stations on the Far North line - that is north of Inverness.

Is this routed for time or for distance? I sse Clapham Junction (CLJ) to Thurso (THS) is routed via Watford & Glasgow rather than going cross London and direct from King Cross (KGX) or to Edinburgh (EDB), as it is from Vauxhall (VXH).

You say it conforms to the routing guide, have you included the easements section in your implementation?

 

[nathan9]

Working out QRB to WCK etc. seems to take the planner longer than the timeout limit I'd set (based on the most complicated journeys I could think of - not complicated enough, apparently). Thanks for pointing that out.

It's routed for time only. With CLJ to THS (and quite a few others I'm noticing), the planner seems to prefer getting on a train as soon as possible instead of waiting, taking a more sensible route, and arriving around the same time. Something else to fix. However, specifying an arrive time does avoid the issue.

The planner does not currently use the Routeing Guide at all - it just takes the route that gets it to the destination soonest.

 

[wintonian]

Dorchester West (DCW) - British Steel Redcar (RBS) returns a journey but Dorchester South (DCS) - British Steel Redcar seems to be too much for the planner.

I haven't checked yet but I presume you haven't allowed for the minimum interchange times?

 

[nathan9]

Yes, DCH to RBS times out despite DCW to RBS being found rather quickly, which seems to defy logic. There is much tweaking to be done.

I've tried to incorporate minimum interchange times for each station from the Master Stations Name CIF file, but the routing engine I'm using chokes when I try to specify them. So, for now, it uses a universal change time of about seven minutes.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I think it has a lot of potential. The layout is quite nice and it seems quite lightweight and responsive; a nice antidote to National Rail Enquiries, for example.

If I ask it for a journey from Exeter St Davids to Reading at 1300 on a weekday, say the 1304 service on Thursday 3rd January - this train has a restaurant service, but GB Rail Info is only showing it as having a buffet. I think it might not be handling "change en route" records properly?

 

[dooton]

Nice design, very responsive. Cradley Heath to University seems to want to route me via Worcester Foregate Street though, although technically you can go that way i'm not sure its authorised by London Midland/whoever and also takes around 25mins longer!

I myself have been using atocs data along with network rails to create a real time app for android, also with historical running data and stats. Its not quite ready yet and I know how hard it must have been to get non direct routing working. Keep up the good work and I looked forward to seeing the finished version!

Matt.

 

[Poggs]

I've created a rudimentary rail journey planner based on the ATOC timetable feeds: gbrail.info. I know little about the UK rail system and would be interested in any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, or criticisms. By my checking, it does seem to conform to the Routeing Guide, although I do challenge anybody to find counterexamples. I also intend to incorporate live trains data, fares information, route maps and mileage, and to provide an API. Please let me know what might be useful and how the site could be improved. Thanks!

That's absolutely excellent! Is it Open Source?

Do you mind if I add this to a showcase page on the Open Rail Data Wiki? (http://nrodwiki.rockshore.net)

 

[nathan9]

Indigo2: The planner will recognize Changes En Route in its next iteration. And thanks - I strive for simplicity.

dooton: I see that too and the route it gives certainly makes no sense as there are (several) quicker alternatives. I shall investigate. Good luck with your app. For me, just getting the CIFs into a usable, concise, and efficient form was the hard part. Still, as you and others have noticed, there are still some routing anomalies to iron out.

Poggs: Yes, please feel free to add it to the wiki. It's not open source, though. An API will be provided once it's in a better state.

 

[brianthegiant]

Nice idea, interesting point about connection times. Most journey planners only allow to specify longer connection times. I'd love to use a planner which allow shorter connection times. Sometimes its useful to be able to check whether a 3 minute run across new st might save me waiting 2 hours for the next Aberystwyth train for example.

 

[nathan9]

That is one of my intentions - to present journeys that respect official connection times while pointing out other, more risky routes for the more spritely, informed, or adventurous (along with a strongly worded warning, of course). It could also give an official journey and still advise of quicker possibilities en route, should services be running on time.

 

[Lrd]

It would be nice to provide actual tube information, like which line in which direction to catch etc.

I like it so far though, easy to use and looks mobile friendly.

 

[Goatboy]

I actually like this - it's not very good at connections, picking trains with really long waits when you could instead leave an hour later or something and still make it at the same time, but the information it presents you is excellent. I particularly like the way you can see at a glance what sort of train the path is timed for. This is very handy as you normally need to specifically look up the train on one of the other sites to get that sort of information.

 

[nathan9]

I'm glad you're finding the information useful. Yes, the planner is a bit too keen to get on a train - this will be the first thing for me to fix. A workaround is to specify an arrive time instead of a depart time.

 

[wbbminerals]

I really like the simple interface and it seems to be working fine for me. Keep up the good work.

 

[tsr]

What an excellent interface - simple and clear. A "via" point selector would be good, if possible.

Just a couple of notes:

Stations with bracketed names (e.g. Sutton (London)) don't always seem to "autocomplete" and add themselves into the text fields properly, but that's my only usability gripe so far (which is good going!).

With regards to journeys with multiple parts, it may be a good idea to consider making one of the "+" option lists disappear as another one is selected using another "+" button, as they display concurrently in a sort of stack at the moment.

 

[nathan9]

Some sort of via facility will be coming, although I'm thinking of showing only sensible/valid choices for the origin and destination entered.

I'm unable to reproduce the autocomplete issue. Could you message me your OS, browser version, and a more detailed description of the behavior, please?

The service details popover behavior will be improved at some point.

 

[tsr]

Some sort of via facility will be coming, although I'm thinking of showing only sensible/valid choices for the origin and destination entered.

I'll be interested to see what you deem "sensible"

I'm unable to reproduce the autocomplete issue. Could you message me your OS, browser version, and a more detailed description of the behavior, please?

I'll do so ASAP, if it's still playing up for me when I check in a mo! If you don't get a PM from me soon, please assume it's now working OK at my end.

The service details popover behavior will be improved at some point.

Excellent

 

[The Ham]

Generally good, however I've spotted a few things that maybe worth considering adding in due course;

Adding is a walk time limit option for between stations (especially where they have different town names), as there are sometimes two stations on different lines which are fairly close but a fair walk which can shorten journey times quite a lot. For instance put in Farnborough (main) to Ascot it returns a journey time of 1 hour 40 (going via Clapham junction), however put in Frimley to Ascot and the train journey is 20 minutes with a 30 minute walk from Farnborough Main.

The other thing that could be very useful is adding in a symbol (probably in the results) for which stations you can buy a plusbus ticket for, as that may show up other stations within the plusbus area which people could search for to overcome the above problem.

 

[stu227]

Nice simple interface and v fast. But a bit odd in its route selection on the few routes I tested - BRE-NRW.

Normally, you'd avoid LST for fare and time efficiency, but your tool seems to insist on it. Also, if I try SNF to NRW, it makes me wait for the 1726 direct service, rather than an earlier indirect service.

 

[dvboy]

Only shows one train, so for example, if I put WVH-BHM, tomorrow 0900 it'll show me the 0900 train, and if I put 0930 it'll show me the 0928 train, but I know there are at least two trains in between, so what if I turn up at 0905?

 

[tractakid]

It's telling me London Overground has 1st class. :P

 

[nathan9]

Thanks for all the helpful and insightful comments - they have been duly noted. Lots of things to fix, which will take a while, especially trying to diagnose some of the more inexplicable journey suggestions. In the meantime, feel free to message me about anything.

 

[bicbasher]

It's telling me London Overground has 1st class. :P

1st Class on LO gets you a seat!

 

[nathan9]

It's been a while, but I've totally rebuilt the journey planner (www.gbrail.info). It can now return every optimal journey between two stations for any date (currently limited to next Monday while testing). Optimal means quickest per number of changes. Minimum change times are respected, although I've yet to incorporate TOC-specific change times. TOC, engine, class, catering and platform information will be added. An API can be provided.

Please try to break it or make it return bad journeys (or miss good ones). Comments and suggestions welcomed.

 

[Hyphen]

Comments and suggestions welcomed.

Sadly don't have time to give it a full test right now (well done on offering Via Stockport as a valid journey Swansea-Sheffield) - one thing I picked up on from a UI perspective though is typing station codes on the front page. Could you modify your station lookup code such that if a direct match is made within the brackets, that line floats to the top of the list? Typing SWA in the From and SHF in the To boxes makes it want to take me from Swale to Ashford International!!

 

[Eagle]

Could you modify your station lookup code such that if a direct match is made within the brackets, that line floats to the top of the list? Typing SWA in the From and SHF in the To boxes makes it want to take me from Swale to Ashford International!!

I'm discovering that there are surprisingly many instances of station codes being buried in other stations' names :P
Ardgay, Elmstead, Bredbury, Rhymney, Westport, Calstock, Greenfaulds, Westgate, Avoncliffe, Llanrwst, Altnabreac, Rutherglen, Camden Road, Brookmans Park, Hebden Bridge, Wilmcote, Haywards Heath, Dewsbury, Richmond...

 

[tractakid]

Well, trying to get from Milton Keynes to Chesham. One option suggested was as follows...

03:30 Milton Keynes Central to
London Euston
04:35
Transfer to London Liverpool Street (23 mins)
Walk to London Fenchurch Street (26 mins)
Tube to Chesham (1h 39m)

Which tube line do I catch from Fenchurch Street?!

 

[Paul Kelly]

Well, trying to get from Milton Keynes to Chesham. One option suggested was as follows...

03:30 Milton Keynes Central to
London Euston
04:35
Transfer to London Liverpool Street (23 mins)
Walk to London Fenchurch Street (26 mins)
Tube to Chesham (1h 39m)

Which tube line do I catch from Fenchurch Street?!

Ha ha. Lots of the cross-London connection information that ATOC provides to journey planners is a load of rubbish. E.g. London Bridge to Paddington - even in the middle of the day it is showing this tube journey as 30 mins, when the TfL journey planner shows it as a maximum of 20 mins (often shorter), using the Jubilee line to Baker Street and then the Bakerloo line to Paddington. I suspect ATOC's cross-London connection data predates the opening of the Jubilee line extension in 1999 and is assuming travel via the Northern Line to Moorgate followed by the Circle line, which does indeed take about 30 minutes.

 

[Hyphen]

Lots of the cross-London connection information that ATOC provides to journey planners is a load of rubbish.

I'm not going to look the numbers up to prove/disprove this, but consider what the numbers are likely to mean. On TFL's site you will be given a journey time based on the time your (first) tube leaves the station and the time you arrive at the destination. This is fine for planning a journey on the tube alone.

Given the NR planners usually give cross London times as part of a journey into then out of London, they will also need to contain a rough guide of how long it will take for you to get from the main station to the tube station (this might be longer than the usual transfer time) as well as how long you are likely to spend waiting for a train. Only then does the journey length start ticking. After that, they still need you to get to the main NR station the other end.

If the planner got you into London Bridge then gave you a train out of Paddington 20 minutes later, there's not a chance in hell you'd make that.