Rail replacement aeroplane?

[renegademaster]

Has this ever happened? Say the last train from Edinburgh to King Cross broke down and no coach operator wants to go that far on short notice, have they ever chartered a plane to bring everyone home, or gave them commercial flight tickets

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has this ever happened? Say the last train from Edinburgh to King Cross broke down and no coach operator wants to go that far on short notice, have they ever chartered a plane to bring everyone home, or gave them commercial flight tickets

I've never heard of it, but it would seem a sensible replacement if Caledonian Sleeper cancels. Though in such a case, because of the high price of berths, the passenger would probably be quids in if they just refunded their berth and booked with easyJet themselves.

I was quite impressed to read on another thread that National Express is known to rebook people onto trains if there's a major problem with coaches, presumably as it's cheaper than overnight accommodation.

(This post: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/grand-central-stranding-passengers-28-03.265170/post-6703376)

I found an interesting approach to this issue adopted by National Express coaches of all people which if you ask me would resolve the problem immediately in compliance with the regulations provided you stocked them at hub stations and that is rail warrants.

I recently worked a train from a city station (booking office was closed) and was met with a number of people clutching rail warrants issued by National Express Coaches for a fairly long distance journey. On enquiring what had happened it turned out a coach was heavily delayed and missed the connecting coach to their eventual destination, so rather than wait overnight they'd just made out rail warrants for the train journey.

 

[Railsigns]

Rail replacement helicopter in Switzerland.

Between November 6 and 17, the Braunwald funicular railroad between Linthal and Braunwald in Switzerland will be overhauled. As there is no suitable roadside connection, replacement transport will be provided by a helicopter shuttle.

 

[Towers]

Has this ever happened? Say the last train from Edinburgh to King Cross broke down and no coach operator wants to go that far on short notice, have they ever chartered a plane to bring everyone home, or gave them commercial flight tickets

I would imagine the cost of a last minute charter of an aircraft would be absolutely eye watering; I’d have thought it’s something never has and never will happen! Likely to be cheaper booking out every spare hotel room they can find, I reckon!

 

[cf111]

Not sure if it's possible in the opposite direction, but BA can and will book passengers onto LNER services north if there is disruption at Heathrow.

 

[sh24]

Given you are talking about high £10,000’s to £100,000 for a one way domestic charter, I doubt any rail company will ever spring for that.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The late Cyril Bleasedale, Sector Director for Intercity under BR, was renowned for being ‘in the thick of it’ on Euston’s concourse during major disruption. He would often find stranded passengers for Scotland, give them one of his business cards and send them off to Heathrow, asking them to get an airline to give them a ticket and send him the bill. It actually seemed to work.

 

[Zerothebrake!]

I was riding the Texas Eagle from LA to Chicago once when we hit a truck on an open crossing ( we were already running 12 hours late by then.. ) so Amtrak put me on a Southwest Airlines flight from Dallas Love Field to Chicago Midway - which impressed me, as it was during Thanksgiving week when everything is usually sold out.

 

[PTR 444]

Has this ever happened? Say the last train from Edinburgh to King Cross broke down and no coach operator wants to go that far on short notice, have they ever chartered a plane to bring everyone home, or gave them commercial flight tickets

I can’t imagine it happening if the train developed a fault mid-journey. For starters you’d need to transfer passengers off the train (which could be miles from the nearest road) and onto dozens of coaches to the nearest suitable airport, before getting them security checked and making sure their baggage fits the allowance, not to mention the 100ml liquids rule. As people don’t usually pack for a train journey in the same manner as a flight, you could end up with several disappointed passengers having to leave some of their belongings behind.

If the disruption is known about before the train’s departure, surely it would be easier to provide ticket acceptance via alternative rail routes (as I’m sure must happen now). For example. Edinburgh - Kings Cross passengers could use Avanti to Euston instead.

As for such an event cancelling the last train of the day, it would make far more sense to arrange overnight accommodation or a taxi for affected passengers.

 

[renegademaster]

I would imagine the cost of a last minute charter of an aircraft would be absolutely eye watering; I’d have thought it’s something never has and never will happen! Likely to be cheaper booking out every spare hotel room they can find, I reckon!

Guess your right but an easyjet ticket beats an hotel most of the time , but obviously you can't deal with many, but if their is only 5 due to London might make economic sense

 

[Mountain Man]

Guess your right but an easyjet ticket beats an hotel most of the time , but obviously you can't deal with many, but if their is only 5 due to London might make economic sense

Very very very very unlikely if ever.

You are a missing the fact a hotel can be found at minutes notice, London is full of solid budget hotels bookable at the last minute. Flights are scheduled and have a check in time. So you are needing not only enough seats available, but at a time where you can still get to their airport, with their being a scheduled departure late at night, and the passenger preferring that option anyway.

 

[RJ]

Has this ever happened? Say the last train from Edinburgh to King Cross broke down and no coach operator wants to go that far on short notice, have they ever chartered a plane to bring everyone home, or gave them commercial flight tickets

A coach operator would 100% cover it for the right price! A price based on paying wages for two drivers, the mileage there and back and reflecting the short notice.

If the rate is intended to pay less than the cost of the wages and fuel and nothing for overheads or short notice reward then that would be a scenario where no coach operator would be likely to be interested, but I think this would be wholly inapplicable on this part of the network!

 

[bnsf734]

These days there is also the problem of security. Not too many passengers would be impressed if they got a flight and half of their baggage finished up in the bin at Heathrow.

 

[43066]

I would imagine the cost of a last minute charter of an aircraft would be absolutely eye watering; I’d have thought it’s something never has and never will happen! Likely to be cheaper booking out every spare hotel room they can find, I reckon!

Indeed. Or just taxis all the way (if they could find them!)

These days there is also the problem of security. Not too many passengers would be impressed if they got a flight and half of their baggage finished up in the bin at Heathrow.

You also AIUI need a photo ID for all domestic flights, and it’s entirely possible that passengers who were expecting a train journey won’t have any.

A coach operator would 100% cover it for the right price! A price based on paying wages for two drivers, the mileage there and back and reflecting the short notice.

Do coach companies tend to have “standby” drivers, or is it more a case of ringing around and begging people to come in!?

 

[Seehof]

I once flew to Brussels from Heathrow with British Midland paid for by Eurostar as a result of disruption caused by the tunnel fire years ago.

 

[TheSmiths82]

A lot of people are probably using trains because they don't like flying too. I certainly would refuse a replacement flight from Edinburgh to London.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Has this ever happened? Say the last train from Edinburgh to King Cross broke down and no coach operator wants to go that far on short notice, have they ever chartered a plane to bring everyone home, or gave them commercial flight tickets

Flight paths and airport gate/runway slots are planned and scheduled far in advance - certain scenarios up to a year in advance - then reviewed and refined up to [Day -1].
Exceptional circumstances do occur. The level of additional activity (and disruption) is significant.

At the late Queen's passing, the flights for all the dignitaries (arriving to pay their respects) had to be reflected within the existing airspace utilisation.
It was a massive undertaking (I say this from being in the Air Traffic sector at that time).
A cancelled train, isn't justification for that disruption to UK airspace management.

 

[Elecman]

The late Cyril Bleasedale, Sector Director for Intercity under BR, was renowned for being ‘in the thick of it’ on Euston’s concourse during major disruption. He would often find stranded passengers for Scotland, give them one of his business cards and send them off to Heathrow, asking them to get an airline to give them a ticket and send him the bill. It actually seemed to work.

He did indeed!! Also bumped passengers upto First class to on many occasions. He was also the ibstigator of CATs ( Customer Action Teams) on delayed trains after I suggested it to him

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

A coach operator would 100% cover it for the right price! A price based on paying wages for two drivers, the mileage there and back and reflecting the short notice.

If the rate is intended to pay less than the cost of the wages and fuel and nothing for overheads or short notice reward then that would be a scenario where no coach operator would be likely to be interested, but I think this would be wholly inapplicable on this part of the network!

Maybe. If he could get cover, and had spare vehicles, and drivers. But it would have to be a bloody good price for most people to bother with. When we had coaches, out of the 12 local operators, only one used to bother with RRB work.

Do coach companies tend to have “standby” drivers, or is it more a case of ringing around and begging people to come in!?

My knowledge may be out of date, but generally no. (We didn’t, and I’m not aware of anybody else that did).

PCV Drivers hours seems to be a bit more restrictive than the rules that train drivers work to, so calling someone in the middle of the night to ask them to do a run is fine, provided they haven’t driven for 9 hours before hand, and then they won’t be able to drive for 9 hours after they get back, so you can’t use anyone who’s driven today, or anyone you need the following day, and you definitely can’t use anyone on a rest day!

Edinburgh to London is let’s say 8 hours, so you either send one guy and put him in a hotel, or two guys and they do there and back. Either way isn’t a great option as you’ve then lost two days worth of driving, and there generally isn’t that level of slack within companies that they can afford to do so. This also assumes no time is spent getting from the depot to the station - so if that’s any more than an hour, you’re probably going to need a third driver just to get the coach ready…

You then have the fact that Driver CPC (insert your own “they’re Mickey Mouse, not real qualifications” comment here if desired…) mean that people like me, who have a day job and just used to drive now and again, haven’t bothered to keep it up as it’s not worth paying for, so we’re no longer readily available as “spares”.

 

[ruaival]

Ref. Bletcheyite comment about Caledonian Sleeper replacement...

Back in 2005 when First Scotrail operated the route, one Sunday entire Sleeper service was cancelled around 0030 - if I recall, due to an over-eager maintenance track lift at Gretna - and the coaches South took 3h to arrive.

My alternative was sleep over with a colleague and first GNER train South; sleep being the key word in the service name.

No flight was offered.

 

[Bill57p9]

I along with a handful of others also experienced a Caledonian Sleeper issue back in ScotRail days (after it departed 45 early). We were offered the choice of a minibus overnight to London or the 0600 to Kings Cross (arrive 0959). We all chose the latter. I didn’t need a hotel since I lived 10 minutes walk from Waverley at the time.

 

[AlbertBeale]

It has happened abroad - in Switzerland (of course) last year. A little mountain railway was out of action for a couple of weeks for planned maintenance, and it was the only reasonable link to a small village. So a helicopter ran a shuttle service (daylight and weather permitting) for a fortnight at the standard railway ticket price. Tourists in the area who had tickets valid on the out-of-action line could use the helicopter too, but locals - such as kids going to school - had precedence! The village was Braunwald high above the town of Linthal (some way south-east of Zurich).

 

[DanNCL]

Not sure if it's possible in the opposite direction, but BA can and will book passengers onto LNER services north if there is disruption at Heathrow.

Much more common for them to do this for the crew than it is for the passengers. From Newcastle, if the first flight of the morning to Heathrow is cancelled for whatever reason (two most common reasons being severe weather or issue with the aircraft), the cabin crew will often travel on LNER back to London as that gets the crew back to Heathrow quicker than deadheading on the next flight would, sometimes they'll even do that whilst the passengers wait for the next flight. Whether the pilots join them on the train or not generally depends on how long the aircraft is expected to be stuck, if it's thought there may be an opportunity to move the aircraft later that day the pilots will usually stay with the aircraft but if it's known that the aircraft isn't moving anywhere the same day then the pilots will often join everyone else on the train.
Passengers wherever possible get rebooked on another flight from BA or another oneworld airline. Crew on the other hand get rebooked on whatever the quickest option to get them back in place is regardless (with a few exceptions) who provides that service.

You also AIUI need a photo ID for all domestic flights, and it’s entirely possible that passengers who were expecting a train journey won’t have any.

On BA/EasyJet/Ryanair yes. On Loganair only if checking in a bag, if travelling hand baggage only Loganair don't require photo ID for domestic flights.

 

[Rail Quest]

Very much thinking outside the box here with this one - is it possible the royal train was due to carry a member of the royal family to an engagement but this couldn't run, so said member of the family had to fly instead? Thats the only thing I could think of that might warrant a rail replacement flight haha

 

[The Puddock]

Very much thinking outside the box here with this one - is it possible the royal train was due to carry a member of the royal family to an engagement but this couldn't run, so said member of the family had to fly instead?

It certainly happened the other way round at least once. I have a Royal Train notice from the 1960s which states that the return journey would be by air but with the Train on standby in case of a problem, with a handwritten note on the front cover stating that the return trip did run because of fog preventing the flight.

 

[Phil R]

I once flew to Brussels from Heathrow with British Midland paid for by Eurostar as a result of disruption caused by the tunnel fire years ago.

There were also a case in 200x (I can't remember the year) where the high speed line on the Calais side was unable to accept traffic for a few days because sea salt carried by spray and wind had compromised the overhead lines. There were charters to Paris/Brussels using Astraeus and ExcelAir (I think) to get overseas-based customers home who'd been holed up in hotels for a couple of nights already. On one day there was a further issue with railway lines out of Victoria so there were cases of taxis in order to get them to Gatwick in time.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Very much thinking outside the box here with this one - is it possible the royal train was due to carry a member of the royal family to an engagement but this couldn't run, so said member of the family had to fly instead? Thats the only thing I could think of that might warrant a rail replacement flight haha

Depending on the distance and location, I'd expect Royal Household road vehicles, with security outriders; or flight (RAF Northolt)

 

[ExRes]

Would the RRA accept pushchairs and bicycles?

 

[800001]

Not sure if it's possible in the opposite direction, but BA can and will book passengers onto LNER services north if there is disruption at Heathrow.

Not just BA, but most airlines can do so

 

[Krokodil]

A coach operator would 100% cover it for the right price!

Even if money is no object there is a limit to what they can do. Trust me, I've had to transfer my bag from one portion to the other at Edinburgh when bridge scour cut off my destination and the promised coaches failed to materialise (what did they expect at 3am?)

It certainly happened the other way round at least once. I have a Royal Train notice from the 1960s which states that the return journey would be by air but with the Train on standby in case of a problem, with a handwritten note on the front cover stating that the return trip did run because of fog preventing the flight.

Wasn't the first instance of the royal train being used for a long journey (rather than just shuttling between London and Slough) down to poor weather preventing HMY Victoria and Albert from sailing up the East Coast to Scotland for Balmoral?