Rail smart cards - Validity codes when using tickets - a couple of questions

[FenMan]

I recently acquired a Touch Smartcard now that (some) journeys and tickets on my regular trips are covered. However I have a couple of questions

I experimented with two one-stop journeys, on different days, from one unstaffed station to another (the latter only has a validator at one exit, so passengers leaving the station on the other side wouldn't go anywhere near it).

I'd purchased the correct tickets for the journeys I made and had activated them via the TOC's app to my Smartcard using the NFC functionality.

The guard did not check my tickets on either journey.

Journey 1 - day return ticket
I didn't bother touching the validators at either end. This ticket has Validity Code 25.

Journey 2 - anytime single ticket
I touched the validator at the departure station, but didn't touch the validator at the arrival station. This ticket has Validity Code 17.

A Google search for Validity Codes unearthed this list, which may be up to date(?):-

Railway station barrier error codes

A list of UK railway station ticket barrier error codes

www.railwaycodes.org.uk

According to that site, the above Validity Codes mean the following:

25

NOT ENTERD

Unstarted journey - exit not permitted

17

NOT ISS HR

Not issued here (attempting entry with a ticket issued elsewhere)

I get the meaning of the first one, but would it cause an issue if my ticket had been for a journey to a gated station? After all, the gates at the destination station would surely assume my my journey couldn't possibly be "unstarted" if I was using a paper or e-ticket.

The second I find baffling, of course the ticket wasn't issued from the TVM that also has the validator, as it had been purchased and activated using the TOC's app. Is this an issue? and, if so, why?

Many thanks in advance if people who understand this stuff can provide some guidance.

 

[Haywain]

What have barrier codes got to do with it? You are not checking on a barrier.

 

[FenMan]

What have barrier codes got to do with it? You are not checking on a barrier.

I'm saying the Validity Codes showing against the (now expired) tickets on the smartcard appear to be related to barrier codes. Are you saying Validity Codes mean something completely different? If so, I'd like to understand what they mean. Thanks.

 

[wibble]

The 25 and 17 you have quoted are Reject Codes for gate lines and not the same as a Validity Code, which likely relate to it being Day Return and Day Single tickets, respectively.

 

[Haywain]

I'm saying the Validity Codes showing against the (now expired) tickets on the smartcard appear to be related to barrier codes. Are you saying Validity Codes mean something completely different? If so, I'd like to understand what they mean. Thanks.

Barrier codes are what is shown on a barrier when a ticket is rejected, with a specific range used for smartcards. However, these will not be carried on the smartcard. As for what the validity codes are, I agree with @wibble about what they likely relate to.

 

[FenMan]

The 25 and 17 you have quoted are Reject Codes for gate lines and not the same as a Validity Code, which likely relate to it being Day Return and Day Single tickets, respectively.

Thanks. I'll check if the same codes show the next time I load tickets on the smartcard (I've only bought two tickets so far).

Where I'm going with this is ... say I'm travelling on split tickets using a smartcard, is there a flag in the data on the smartcard that shows whether or not I've touched in? I'd obviously prefer this isn't the case to avoid having to leave the train at the split point.

 

[skyhigh]

Where I'm going with this is ... say I'm travelling on split tickets using a smartcard, is there a flag in the data on the smartcard that shows whether or not I've touched in? I'd obviously prefer this isn't the case to avoid having to leave the train at the split point.

Unless you're using pay as you go or a Flexi season you haven't activated that day, there is absolutely no need to tap in.

 

[Haywain]

Where I'm going with this is ... say I'm travelling on split tickets using a smartcard, is there a flag in the data on the smartcard that shows whether or not I've touched in? I'd obviously prefer this isn't the case to avoid having to leave the train at the split point.

I have no idea where you are going with this, to be honest. When you touch in a smartcard the touch will be recorded to a central database, and that database will be interrogated when each future touch happens. That has no impact on your right or ability to break a journey, or to use of split tickets.

 

[FenMan]

Questions answered. Thanks both!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Unless you're using pay as you go or a Flexi season you haven't activated that day, there is absolutely no need to tap in.

Do you not have to activate a day ticket? As far as I know you need to tap in/out with normal tickets on Smartcards.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Do you not have to activate a day ticket? As far as I know you need to tap in/out with normal tickets on Smartcards.

This is a condition of using the smartcard, but said condition of using the smartcard also covers every ticket, including seasons - which in practice you don’t need to tap in/out.

Condition 9 of the GWR (I assume based on OP’s posting history and the fact it’s a Touch Smartcard) Touch Smartcard Conditions of Use states that:

At the start and end of every journey, your smartcard must be placed on the smartcard reader located on the ticket gate or on a platform validator where available. The reader indicates the card has been properly read by making an audible “beep” and showing a green light.

In practice, since you need to tap it in and out to mark it as used properly, you need to tap in and out on single/return tickets.

 

[Wallsendmag]

This is a condition of using the smartcard, but said condition of using the smartcard also covers every ticket, including seasons - which in practice you don’t need to tap in/out.

Condition 9 of the GWR (I assume based on OP’s posting history and the fact it’s a Touch Smartcard) Touch Smartcard Conditions of Use states that:

In practice, since you need to tap it in and out to mark it as used properly, you need to tap in and out on single/return tickets.

Although with a season it can be very helpful with automated delay repay systems to see the taps.

 

[Olympian]

I'm saying the Validity Codes showing against the (now expired) tickets on the smartcard appear to be related to barrier codes. Are you saying Validity Codes mean something completely different? If so, I'd like to understand what they mean. Thanks.

I suspect you’re getting these codes from reading the ITSO product encoding using a suitable app, if so then ValidityCode is an encoded field in TYP22 and 23 products defined in RSPS3002 ITSO on National Rail specification. 17 just means it’s a live (rather than test) product whilst 25 goes a bit further into specifying peak / off-peak validity but not specific times. Nothing to do with barrier error codes.

 

[FenMan]

I suspect you’re getting these codes from reading the ITSO product encoding using a suitable app, if so then ValidityCode is an encoded field in TYP22 and 23 products defined in RSPS3002 ITSO on National Rail specification. 17 just means it’s a live (rather than test) product whilst 25 goes a bit further into specifying peak / off-peak validity but not specific times. Nothing to do with barrier error codes.

Thanks for clarifying. Appreciated.