Railcard & Contactless anomalies

[MarlowDonkey]

It's known that Railcards cannot be loaded to bank cards used for contactless travel. It's also suspected that the reason is a "won't" rather than "can't".

There are anomalies outside the Oyster area.

For example my local station, Marlow, acquired a contactless reader after the implementation of Elizabeth Line services from Maidenhead alongside GWR ones.

Using the forum's ticketing website I can establish that the cost of an off peak day return to Paddington would be £ 22.20 without a railcard and £ 14.75 with a Senior or other "one third off" Railcard.

A Single one way ticket would cost £ 12.65 with the Railcard and £ 19.00 without.

The forum's site doesn't mention it, but according to the National Rail enquiries site, the contactless price is £ 11.10. This undercuts even the Railcard price for a single journey. It's a relevant point when planning longer distance travel and possibly splitting in London as period returns are not available from Marlow to Paddington.

 

[CyrusWuff]

As PAYG was extended out to Reading and the Thames Valley branches prior to Project Oval, GWR weren't required to align traditional and PAYG fares as part of the extension.

Hence there's no Off-Peak Single between Marlow and Paddington, but the Off-Peak PAYG fare is 50% of the Off-Peak Day Return fare.

 

[JonathanH]

An off-peak day single from Marlow to Eynsford (which is in Project Oval) is £7.55 with a railcard.

Interestingly, the off-peak day single fares from Reading to Eynsford were restored to 'traditional' pricing in March, having been single leg pricing since fares were reset for Project Oval, whereas the Eynsford to Reading off-peak day single fare remained on a single leg basis, but seems to be back on single leg pricing again.

Perhaps there is some testing going on as to whether people in Reading are taking 'undue advantage' of the Eynsford anomaly.

One observation is that you can stop short on 'paper' fares but can't avoid the intended fare on Contactless.

 

[Sonic1234]

One observation is that you can stop short on 'paper' fares but can't avoid the intended fare on Contactless.

Also break of journey, if this is something you want to do. Even within the London Zones, if you want to visit more than one place on a route, it can be better to buy an overpriced paper ticket and use break of journey than pay separate Contactless fares.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's known that Railcards cannot be loaded to bank cards used for contactless travel. It's also suspected that the reason is a "won't" rather than "can't".

Not being able to load a railcard discount directly to a bank debit or credit card is a known fact. As has been mentioned many times it would have to be done in the back office system by linking the bank card to a railcard through a TfL account.

 

[miklcct]

Not being able to load a railcard discount directly to a bank debit or credit card is a known fact. As has been mentioned many times it would have to be done in the back office system by linking the bank card to a railcard through a TfL account.

So it is a won't (TfL won't develop the system to do it), rather than a can't (as other countries have proved that it is possible).

 

[The exile]

So it is a won't (TfL won't develop the system to do it), rather than a can't (as other countries have proved that it is possible).

Though by linking data in the "back office" we're into the realms of data protection where there may also be a legal "mustn't". No idea whether that applies in this country or not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a "won't for now". If the project to move Oyster onto the contactless back-end moves forward, which it'll need to at some point as Oyster is essentially obsolete, either it'll be part of that or TfL will withdraw from Railcards entirely, one or the other!

 

[MarlowDonkey]

It's a "won't for now". If the project to move Oyster onto the contactless back-end moves forward, which it'll need to at some point as Oyster is essentially obsolete, either it'll be part of that or TfL will withdraw from Railcards entirely, one or the other!

Contactless is not just TfL. As the contactless zone extends beyond Greater London, lack of support for railcards becomes an impediment to wider adoption on GWR, Chiltern etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Contactless is not just TfL. As the contactless zone extends beyond Greater London, lack of support for railcards becomes an impediment to wider adoption on GWR, Chiltern etc.

It doesn't do anything of the sort, because those with Railcards can simply purchase paper tickets which are, in most of the Oval area, exactly the same price (give or take minor anomalies on peak restrictions which occur because contactless and paper tickets work differently, e.g. contactless peak is based on touch-in time whereas ticket peak is based on the actual train time, and which can work either way so sometimes a paper ticket can be better value and sometimes contactless*). The approach taken inside the TfL area of punitively pricing paper tickets does not apply to the wider Oval area and there is no plan I have ever heard of to change that.

* Ignoring that there is a big anomaly going on at the moment making contactless fares *much* cheaper than paper for some journeys, which I think I heard mentioned was caused by boundary zone fare anomalies and will no doubt be fixed in due course.

 

[cool110]

Though by linking data in the "back office" we're into the realms of data protection where there may also be a legal "mustn't". No idea whether that applies in this country or not.

It won't, the Netherlands do it and the small differences between the UK and EU versions of GDPR aren't relevant to this situation.

 

[Haywain]

It doesn't do anything of the sort, because those with Railcards can simply purchase paper tickets

And that's not an impediment to wider take up of contactless ticketing? If it reduces the number of people who can use contactless that's an impediment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And that's not an impediment to wider take up of contactless ticketing? If it reduces the number of people who can use contactless that's an impediment.

It is an impediment on takeup, yes, but it's one that isn't disastrous and will, unless TfL withdraw from Railcard acceptance entirely, be fixed in due course.

It's absolutely not an impediment on extending the Oval area, as it as much applies to Bletchley as it does to Milton Keynes Central. I suspect the reason why Oval stopped short of places like MKC and Stevenage this time was simply because of the multiple TOCs serving those stations meaning the fares are rather complex. Once GBR does a tidy-up of TOC specific fares as they no doubt will, it can then be moved out a bit further, though going past the rump Network SouthEast area is probably unlikely.

 

[swt_passenger]

So it is a won't (TfL won't develop the system to do it), rather than a can't (as other countries have proved that it is possible).

Whatever they eventually do in the back office processing software, they won’t be loading anything onto the physical card, which is what the OP was implying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whatever they eventually do in the back office processing software, they won’t be loading anything onto the physical card, which is what the OP was implying.

Correct. What will happen is that Oyster cards will just become simple RFID type cards and all processing will move into the back office. Stored value cards are a 1990s concept from when it wasn't possible to have ticket gates and inspection devices online in real time. It is now.

Obviously you can't load anything to a debit card in any case, as it's not TfL's to do that and there's no way for them to do it. The Railcard would be associated with the online account attached to the contactless or Oyster card.